Citric Acid Radiators flush ?

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by kale43v3r, Aug 10, 2017.

  1. dbuzz77

    dbuzz77 New Member

    Country:
    Canada
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2017
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    South Lake, Saskatchewan
    Map
    I don't know where it says it has bad heat transfer, racers use it to prevent boilover and it stops the hot spots at the cylinder when it fires. it doesn't build pressure from steam so there is no interference with coolant flow. I guess i should be quiet now till i can afford to change mine.
     
  2. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,503
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Orlando Florida
    Map
    It says it in any heat transfer book, but here is a study on the effects of using Evans waterless coolant on an LS1.

    https://www.norosion.com/evanstest.htm

    Also a troubling fact about waterless coolant, it is about 4x as viscous as water, which will put much more drag on the water pump. I couldn't imagine spinning the water pump at the rpms the VFR is capable of, with that kind of viscosity being a good thing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
  3. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,503
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Orlando Florida
    Map
    "The reason for hotter cylinder heads relates to the specific heat capacity of these different fluids. Water has a specific heat capacity of 1.00. It transfers heat more effectively than any other fluid, and is therefore used as the reference fluid in the scientific measure of specific heat capacity. Comparatively, the specific heat capacity of the various glycol solutions in the Evans products ranges from 0.64 to 0.68. So they conduct roughly half as much heat as does water."

    Specific heat of:

    Water = 1.00 Cp
    50/50 coolant = 0.86 Cp
    100% Glycol = 0.64 Cp

    https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethylene-glycol-d_146.html







    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
  4. 34468 Randy

    34468 Randy Secret Insider

    Country:
    Canada
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    13,741
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    Chilliwack, BC Canada
    Map
    So then. Why wouldn't we just run water in our systems then? I know coolant is also and anti freeze but we sure don't need to worry about that do we? Then again, I guess I do but no one else here seems to suffer my stupidity. But seriously. I don't know the science. If water is the best fluid for heat transfer, would it not be a better thing to use? What is the benefit of spending money on any cooling product if the best is available free out of the tap?
     
    Allyance likes this.
  5. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,503
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Orlando Florida
    Map
    Water boils and freezes more easily than Glycol and offers no seal lubricant or corrosion protection.
    That is why 50/50 plus corrosion inhibitors/Lubricants is the normal compromise.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2017
    34468 Randy likes this.
  6. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,503
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Orlando Florida
    Map
    For me, distilled water plus a few ounces of No-Rosion would do the trick, as in Florida I will not have to worry about Freezing temperatures and with a manual fan switch and other mods, I never get above 200 degrees on the hottest days, even when stuck in traffic.
     
  7. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1,969
    Likes Received:
    548
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Location:
    London
    Map
    if you live in the desert & at a low altitude (most of Oz - lol) the running a 75/25 may be better - Water / anti freeze
     
  8. Allyance

    Allyance Insider

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2013
    Messages:
    3,522
    Likes Received:
    391
    Trophy Points:
    128
    Location:
    East Bay, California
    Map
    NASCAR runs 100% water, mainly because of potential cleanup problems with coolant leaking on track after damage to radiators from bumping each other! Figure these guys know what they are doing when they put small piece of tape of the front of the car to adjust temps.
     
  9. dbuzz77

    dbuzz77 New Member

    Country:
    Canada
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2017
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    South Lake, Saskatchewan
    Map
    It's good to see other info out there, i always wanted to try the evans but i guess probably not now. I believe we do not use straight water because of the boilover issue, antifreeze raises the boiling point. what i did try is amsoil coolant boost in my antifreeze, but the season is over here and i have to wait till next year to find out if it did anything. It's really not that hot here but i wanted to try it.
     
  10. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,503
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Orlando Florida
    Map
    All coolant boosters like that and redline water wetter do is break the surface tension in the water. Same can be done with a drop or two of dish soap.
     
  11. dbuzz77

    dbuzz77 New Member

    Country:
    Canada
    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2017
    Messages:
    161
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    South Lake, Saskatchewan
    Map
    dish soap would get thrashed in no time, you would have to keep adding. I'll see any results in the spring i guess
     
  12. Lint

    Lint Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    4,805
    Likes Received:
    950
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Simi Valley, Ca.
    Map
    This is a link to the MSDS for their Powersports coolant. It shows what it's made of;
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.hrpworld.com/store/media/media/manufacturer/evans/pdfs/EVANS-POWERSPORTS%20-%20Evans%20Waterless%20Powersports%20Engine%20Coolant%20-%20SDS.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiX85ep96LXAhVSw2MKHd6vC30QFggcMAA&usg=AOvVaw3JkIxs6S4yJ77BZb0-sdfK
     
  13. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,503
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Orlando Florida
    Map
  14. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1,969
    Likes Received:
    548
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Location:
    London
    Map

    Water
     
  15. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1,969
    Likes Received:
    548
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Location:
    London
    Map
    Sorry, Typo:

    Snake oil...... lol
     
    CandyRedRC46 likes this.
  16. gregrunt

    gregrunt New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2017
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    The impact of an acid flush depends on 3 things: strength of acid, concentration, and contact duration. These will all impact the rate of reaction between the surfaces inside your cooling system and the solution. If the contact time is too long, or the acid is too strong or concentrated, it will begin to eat away at the metal. Each successive cleaning will dig deeper and deeper into the metal until you have a much bigger problem on your hands. So, what I would recommend is you start out with a dilute, weak(er) acid. If the water is coming out reddish-brown (indicative of rust) a stronger, more concentrated acid can be used to reduce the number of flushes necessary to remove the rust and thus prevent its spread. Acetic acid (vinegar) is weaker than citric acid and can be bought at the store pretty cheap as distilled white vinegar. I recommend doing the following:

    1. Mix 50/50 distilled white vinegar and distilled water
    2. Drain the old coolant (and dispose of it appropriately)
    3. Remove the reservoir and give it a thorough cleaning on its own (mine had some gross black crud at the bottom that I had to vigorously shake while the solution was in it to get loose; alternatively, just buy a new one)
    4. Replace the reservoir and fill it with the solution
    5. Fill the bike with the solution through the radiator, occasionally rocking it to jostle out air bubbles
    6. Bring the bike to operating temperature and blip the throttle some
    7. Turn the bike off and let it cool for 15-30mins
    8. Drain the solution
    9. Repeat steps 3 through 8 with distilled water to remove any lingering acid
    10. Fill the bike with your desired coolant being sure to fill the reservoir to between the "low" and "high" lines

    I would advise against using tap water at any stage in this process, especially if your local water is hard, as it can cause scaling on the metal components (and because distilled water is really cheap). Distilled water may be used as your coolant of choice, if desired. However, you will want to add a corrosion inhibitor of some sort because carbon dioxide will dissolve into distilled water and cause it to be slightly acidic. Also, you will need to drain this in the winter if you live in a cold region as pure distilled water will expand more than a 50/50 water/antifreeze solution and can result in damage to pipes, pumps, and other parts. I would recommend using a 50/50 solution with distilled water and propylene glycol (because it's less toxic than ethylene glycol and performs similarly). Change it out every 2 years and your cooling system will have a long, happy life.
     
  17. Allyance

    Allyance Insider

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2013
    Messages:
    3,522
    Likes Received:
    391
    Trophy Points:
    128
    Location:
    East Bay, California
    Map
    Cleanup any spills quickly, pets love anti-freeze - lethal.
     
  18. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,503
    Likes Received:
    66
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Orlando Florida
    Map

    Do you think CLR would damage the cooling system, doing a flush similar to what you described?
     
  19. gregrunt

    gregrunt New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2017
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    According to the back label on the product, it recommends you not use it on aluminum. Isn't the stuff pretty thick too? I imagine if you had something that thick running through the pump, it'd put undue stress on it. Not to mention it could be difficult to completely flush out. So I'd stay away.
     
    34468 Randy likes this.
  20. 34468 Randy

    34468 Randy Secret Insider

    Country:
    Canada
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2007
    Messages:
    13,741
    Likes Received:
    1,557
    Trophy Points:
    158
    Location:
    Chilliwack, BC Canada
    Map
    Though I have no expertise in this at all, I would certainly be eerie about running any kind of all purpose home cleaner through my bike. I would not with more safe and proven methods available to us here. Failing these, what it says in the owner's manual.
     
Related Topics

Share This Page