VFR 800F vs Supersport

Discussion in 'General VFR Discussions' started by viffviff, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. viffviff

    viffviff New Member

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    I sold my VFR800 Fi a couple of years ago. I felt it was getting a bit heavy (for me), I wanted ABS and something lighter, and something that could do a trackday comfortably. (I'd done a couple on the VFR but was grinding bits off the pegs!). I wanted something a bit sporty, but without full sportsbike ergos, and didn't care for naked bikes. I searched hard, but couldn't find anything I really liked. I wanted a lighter VFR, with better ground clearance, and ABS.
    Then the Ducati Supersport arrived. Very VFR-like. Light(ish). Super handling. Characterful engine with good torque across the rev range. Had I found what I had been looking for? I test rode a couple to make sure... But, the more I looked into it the more I got concerned about the build quality and what I considered basic design flaws.... For a road bike and not a true sportsbike, the mirrors are terrible. The fairings don't look properly aligned. The second bike I rode had lots of false neutrals between 4-5-6th - which is common until run in apparently. The exhaust heat melts the shock bump stop (Ducati recall in progress). Some users report bits falling off (probably owing to the vibes from the V-twin, and a fastener which didn't take this into account!). Really disappointing on a bike costing over £13k, and I don't think I can bring myself to spend such a huge amount on something which, to be frank, I think has seen some skimping during design and testing.
    So I could be coming back full-circle. Looking again at a VFR800F (2014 onwards) second-hand, for half the price of a Supersport. I wish I'd never sold the Fi! Any thoughts on the new 800F welcomed.
     
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  2. GatorGreg

    GatorGreg Honda Fanboy/LitiGator

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  3. thtanner

    thtanner New Member

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    Love my 2014 (I have a 98 too.) Lean angle is not really increased, but the bike does feel a bit lighter. The standard model does not have a center stand, so that helps, and swapping to a higher mount exhaust could allow for some more room on that side.
     
  4. viffviff

    viffviff New Member

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    Thanks for the thread link - a good read!

    The VFR and SS are subtly different machines but with common ground in the middle. The ergos are similar, and the looks to some extent, but the SS is more about solo riding and more sporty riding. If I was going to a track day, I'd take the SS. If I needed to go over 100 miles, or go 2-up, I'd definitely take a VFR.
    As many have said previously, it is a shame that Honda didn't make more effort with the new VFR to make it lighter, more powerful, drop the VTEC etc. It would have had the SS beaten even before it was released.
    The SS looked ideal for me, at first glance. I just can't get over its weaknesses, especially given its price tag. The weaknesses are not even dynamic, the bike handles brilliantly. It is more about quality of the engineering and some basic design flaws (mirrors). I rode the SS and 959 Panigale back to back. The Panigale has an uncompromising riding position (so unfortunately not for me any more), but feels a far better engineered machine and is only slightly more expensive than the "S" version of the SS. I also don't find 'false-neutrals' acceptable in a bike in this day and age and positively dangerous during an overtake. It's not a 1950s classic!
    I have noticed that the SS owners are quick to forgive the faults of their machine, yet VFR owners are far more critical. They are both good bikes. For me though, the Ducati is too expensive for what it is, and with some significant flaws that I can't easily overlook. I could stomach parting with the cash it if were beautifully well-engineered and built, and it isn't imo.
     
  5. GatorGreg

    GatorGreg Honda Fanboy/LitiGator

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    You're welcome - and I made a similar comment in the other thread which I thought worthy of cutting and pasting below :D

    I can't help but notice that the folks who complain most vehemently about the 8th gen's shortcomings (and take every opportunity to talk up this new Ducati) are non-8th gen owners and some of them either don't own a VFR or haven't owned one for years! :glee:

    Most folks who actually own an 8th gen (with few exceptions I'm sure) seem to REALLY like them - I know I do! Yeah it's not perfect, but what bike is? Certainly not this new Ducati with its fuzzy mirrors, game-boy dash, inferior sounding engine, clown-like wheels, paltry fuel tank, and presumably Ducati's notorious reliability (which is nearly THREE times worse than Honda per Consumer Reports).

    In fact, motorcycle.com gave the new Ducati SuperSport a score of 86.5% in their recent review which is hardly a perfect score for something that some would have you believe is the new Holy Grail of sports-tourers :witless:

    Ironically, this is the EXACT SAME SCORE they gave the 8th gen VFR800 Interceptor!!! So while the 8th gen haters and Ducati owners may have their view, I say try them both and pick the one you like best because you may find the 8th gen to be a better fit for you (see how "fair and balanced" I am? :beguiled: )

    Sources
    Link to motorcycle.com's review (written by Troy Siahaan) with an 86.5% rating of '17 Ducati SuperSport:
    http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/ducati/2017-ducati-supersport-review.html

    Link to motorcycle.com's review (written by Evans Brasfield) with an 86.5% rating of the 8th gen VFR800 Interceptor:
    http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/honda/2014-honda-interceptor-review-first-ride.html

    Link to ConsumerReport's article, "Who makes the most reliable motorcycle? We rate 10 big brands":
    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/04/who-makes-the-most-reliable-motorcycle/index.htm
     
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  6. fink

    fink Member

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    Got to agree with Gator on this one for a change.

    Never thought the vfr had ground clearance issues out on the road. On track every bike designed for road use ( ie not track based) will have clearance issues.


    Love my vfr and have run it along side a zx9r and a cbr600. It ticks all the boxes I want it too.
     
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  7. GatorGreg

    GatorGreg Honda Fanboy/LitiGator

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    :D
     
  8. OCLandspeeder

    OCLandspeeder New Member

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    Just my opinion regarding VFR's versus sportier bikes.

    If you want a turnkey solution to your conundrum: a sportier, lighter "VFR-like" bike, the only ones available are the naked bikes. Because what these machines basically are sportbikes with more comfortable riding position and bodywork removed. Unfortunately, most of the Japanese brand ones have downgraded suspension too. You may or may not notice this unless you are really pushing the machine at the track. However, they offer significantly lighter weight, and sportbike tuned engines and corresponding close ratio transmissions, which make them great track bikes, and great fun to ride in aggressively on the streets.

    However, I believe the best solution would be to take an existing supersport motorcycle, be it a CBR, an R, or a GSXR, and then simply change out the bike's ergonomics to make them more comfortable for normal street riding. This way you get the light weight, racy powertrain, fully adjustable suspension, powerful brakes, & sleek bodywork for greater wind protection.

    Because all VFR's of all generations are designed to be great street bikes FIRST. All these great, streebike features the VFR's have add weight. Also, VFR's are meant to carry heavy luggage. Therefore its frame must be more stout to bear this load, which adds weight.

    Or, you could take a VFR, add really great aftermarket suspension, quick shifter, and be done with it and accept it for what it is: a great, practical street bike you can also take to the track.
     
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  9. OZ VFR

    OZ VFR Member

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    After a recent experience my only answer is, take the new Street Tripple 765R for a ride.
    What an eye opener.
    Only problem is the lack of full fairing, but there might be an answer to that as well.
    Keep tuned.
     
  10. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    Yep - Buy a 2007/2008 CBR600rr...

    Lighter, cheaper, faster, bigger fuel tank, etc, etc
     
  11. viffviff

    viffviff New Member

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    Some really good points there. Hadn't thought about it in quite those terms but it is so right on reflection. I think Ducati are the only manufacturer who have made a faired-naked - if that makes sense, with the SS, with decent suspension too. Shame they didn't spend a bit more money and effort to do a better job of it. If Honda had built it (and properly) it would have been something else. I've thought about modding a sportsbike, but need to find one that is ripe for making more comfortatble - eg higher bars don't foul bodywork..
     
  12. fink

    fink Member

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    Try a 954. You can pop a set of rentals on them
     
  13. Viffer J

    Viffer J New Member

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    I bought a low mile 2014 deluxe this summer, such a great value for the money IMO, I am really enjoying it!
     
  14. TexArmageddon

    TexArmageddon New Member

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    No offense and I really hate to say this about my VFR, but for the cost of purchasing one new.. There isn't much going for it. Half baked suspension, low power, and high curb weight is hard to overlook simply because it has good fuel range. Owning 2 VFR800s and one VFR1200 I can't sit here and act like I haven't had my issues with bikes. Yet, if Ducati bikes are anything like my bikes... It will mostly be electrical issues.

    For 13k you weren't getting much. Literally, the only good deal was the basic model and even then it was hard to swallow due to everything you Didn't get. There are just way too many lighter touring bikes on the market to try to justify the VFR800s weight you guys. Unlike them though, the Ninja 1000 was already on the market when the 8th gen dropped so right off the bat I was already eye balling the Ninja, but I got a VFR1200 instead.

    I've done the whole let's convert a sport bike to something more comfortable and in all honesty it just turns into an awkward affair. Now, I'm not saying the Supersport is the greatest bike out there. I'm just saying that Honda should have known better than to release a 530lb 800cc 110hp bike... Took out suspension adjustment for base models and then threw all the basic touring amenities behind a pay wall which then pushed it's price up there with other bikes when it was all said and done only to be one of the HEAVIEST in it's category.

    I'm sorry, but I'm critical of the bike, because I love this bike.
     
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  15. Ridem32

    Ridem32 New Member

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    Which bike did you like better the 800 or 1200?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. GatorGreg

    GatorGreg Honda Fanboy/LitiGator

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    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm betting you don't own an 8th gen, do you? You sound like the typical older generation owning 8th gen hater. Also, the OP wouldn't be spending anywhere close to $13K on an 8th gen in today's market, especially since he's looking at getting a used 8th gen.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
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  17. viffviff

    viffviff New Member

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    No ABS sadly....
     
  18. viffviff

    viffviff New Member

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    Sat on an 8th Gen in the dealers today. Reminded me a lot of my Fi, but boy is it heavy! Heavier than I remember from my Fi. If I was doing more touring rather than short outings at a weekend, the weight would be more acceptable. I wish Honda had really gone to town when they decided to upgrade the VFR. I guess they were worried about whether there was a market a lightweight Sports tourer and took a low risk/low cost approach. Unfortunately, Ducati have got there first with the SS, and for all its problems and near-giggle-inducing cost, is selling well. The Ducati dealer told me it is now their second best selling model, behind the Multistrada, and equal with the Scrambler. If only, Honda, if only.... Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed my Fi and I can see a lot of plusses for an 8th gen, especially second hand. I might give an Aprilia Touno a bash. Not much of a fairing, but might be a compromise between a tourer and sportsbike. It's V4 and Italian so bound to break down!
     
  19. TexArmageddon

    TexArmageddon New Member

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    It's a mixed bag for me. I prefer the 800 cause it's more nimble and has better fuel range. I like the 1200 cause it has more power and less maintenance involved.
     
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  20. OCLandspeeder

    OCLandspeeder New Member

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    On the surface I do agree with TexArmageddon. But I also differ from his overall perspective.

    On paper the Ninja 1000 is "better". But I do think this bike is too ugly, especially the exhaust. It's way too Transformers-like and that turns me off. I'm sorry but, power isn't everything for me.

    The VFR800 is underpowered only in the spec sheet and if one is trying to keep up with liter+ bikes ridden aggressively. How often does one do this? Not often. And if one is going to ride liter+ bikes that aggressively, maybe the riding needs to take place at the track. Just my humble opinion. I've ridden my 100 rwhp bikes with literbikes all the time....they are plenty fast enough 99% of the time except in a drag race against such bikes.

    The VFR800 is heavy but only when you compare it to ??? Compared to the Ninja 1000 yes it is heavier on paper. Does it really hold you back? No it won't. It's all rider ability. It's mostly going to be holding you back in your head. Yes it is A LOT heavier than a naked bike like a BMWS1000r, Suzuki GSX-S1000, CBR600/1000, etc. In exchange for that weight you get SSSA, full fairing, centerstand, gas gauge, stout sub-frame for carrying heavy stuff.

    The VFR800's suspension is basic. But it's already pretty good (when new). The Deluxe one takes it to the next level. But nothing will be REALLY good in this category until you pay $$$ for a quality custom suspension. BWM S1000r has adjustable on the fly suspension....for $2k more. So there is where you get that nice suspension.

    That's why if great suspension, light weight, and lots of top end power is your goal, yet you want comfort, then taking a Super Sport class bike and putting comfortable bars and lower footpegs is the ONLY way to go.
     
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