5th Gen VFR800 Oil Cooler Swap

Discussion in '5th Generation 1998-2001' started by tinkerinWstuff, Sep 19, 2012.

  1. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    I saw a writeup where someone else had figured out that an RC51 oil cooler would work on a VFR800. Decided to give it a shot myself.

    So the RC51 oil cooler is twice the size of the OEM 5th gen and 25% larger than the 6th gen.

    I purchased an RC51 off ebay with lines for $75 shipped.

    Here are the two side by side with VFR on top:
    [​IMG]

    It took longer to remove the plastics than it did to do the swap.

    Notice the mount bracket is shifted to one side on the VFR. This ends up making the RC51 cooler sit more to the right side radiator. The plan is to make a new mount bracket when I tear the bike down this winter for other modifications. For now there is about an inch of clearance between the oil cooler and the right radiator.

    Old cooler:
    [​IMG]

    old cooler removed from top mount and hanging by the lines
    [​IMG]

    New cooler installed:
    [​IMG]

    I had to trim off one of the lower tabs off the RC51 cooler so it wasn't interfering with the valve cover.

    The RC51 oil lines are .100" larger in diameter. The VFR lines will bolt right up to the RC51 cooler but you have to double up the o'rings. I will probably have custom lines made this winter using the RC51 ends.

    The orifice at the oil pan for both VFR and the RC51 measure .450" so the flow through the cooler should remain the same.

    The VFR800 has two oil pumps in the same assembly. One side of the pump feeds the oil cooler and the cooled oil goes to the transmission gears (chapter 4 of the factory service manual). The RC51 appears to only have one pump outlet and sends all oil through the cooler (looking at used pumps on ebay).

    I had to tweak and cuss at the right side line to get it to clear. The lower mount point of the new cooler shifted the line and had some minor interference:
    [​IMG]

    Now I have no way of qualifying the results beyond assumptions and opinion. Maybe at some point I will ride the same road alongside another stock 5th gen and see how the temps and fan on time compare. Can't really see how it can hurt anything provided the right oil is run for the temperature and as long as the engine is able to maintain 170deg on the coldest days.

    So simple, a wine drinking golfer could do it.
     
  2. OOTV

    OOTV Insider

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    How about a whiskey drinking programmer?

    I think custom lines would make it complete!
     
  3. mello dude

    mello dude Administrator

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    I would love to try some set up to monitor oil temps. Been tempted at times to try the oil pan sensor thing, or optimum is at the oil filter. My consern with a RC51 cooler is that oil could be too cool. Texas or Florida or any hot clime my be ok, Ohio, I wouldnt do it till I had a handle on temps. If you google, optimum seems to be in the 180 to 210 F range.
     
  4. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    I can appreciate all those concerns which is why I did the research I did and listed above.

    The first key being that the oil coming from the cooler isn't supplying the crankshaft, piston skirts, or valve train. It's going to the transmission gears and back to the pan. So even if the oil coming off the cooler was below "optimum" for an internal combustion engine, it will be more than fine for the gear set.

    The DR650 and other Suzuki's, namely the GSXR, exclusively used oil cooling without a thermostat. I have an oil temp gauge on the DR650 following the oil cooler and even in 30degree weather, I get 170degree oil temperatures.

    A point of information for curious folks - best I can tell from Honda's shitty, but pretty, oil flow chart in chapter 4 of the factory service manual is that the oil through the cooler is un-filtered.

    Worst case is - if I was concerned about oil temps being too cool in the winter months, it's pretty simple to place a plastic cover over half the oil cooler. But it's a lot harder to get more cooling in the hot summer months.
     
  5. slowbird

    slowbird Member

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    Neat swap!

    Thanks for sharing. :cool:
     
  6. mello dude

    mello dude Administrator

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    - We're looking at the same chart and agree its a split system. Part of the pressurized oil runs like you say and draws from the sump unfiltered thru the oil cooler and back over the tranny and drains back into the sump. The other part also pulls from the sump and runs to the oil filter and then to the bearings of the engine and then returns the oil into the sump. The thought is - whadif the sump temp is too cool? ( - Best scenerio would be to get temps at the oil filter.) Something to commiserate over a beer..... :smile:

    - There are a couple guys on the other side of the fence who have done this and do the tape up, block it up thing for cooler weather.
     
  7. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    Agreed. I had all the same thoughts and concerns.

    And based on the the success of other oil cooled systems that have no mechanism to compensate for lower ambient temperatures, and considering the coldest temps I'd ride this vehicle in as 15deg F (on the rarest of occasions), but most often not below 45deg F - I just have zero concern that there will be any problem. If by some miracle I saw that the water cooling system was unable to maintain 170deg F, then I will change my tune.

    I am a geek for data and information so I will likely take my infrared thermometer on cold days just to see what the pan and oil filter are running.
     
  8. Pliskin

    Pliskin New Member

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    Thanks Tink. Good stuff as usual, although the part that I find indisputable and not subject to any opinion is when you said
    .

    But seriously, always enjoy reading about your projects.
     
  9. mello dude

    mello dude Administrator

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    -- I'm with ya on that, as a fellow geek foole, I'm interested as well. --- -- I like to experiment with different stuff, and there's an oil plug temp sensor and readout that Dennis Kirk sells. Trouble is, it's about 100 bucks. But someday, I just gots to know. Like you say, data rules..

    Anyhoo - great job Tink
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  10. Scubalong

    Scubalong Official Greeter?

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    Great job as always Tink :thumb:
     
  11. Maggot

    Maggot New Member

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    Just my stupid opinion so don't take it as fact, but it is great to kick these ideas around. The 170 degree you mention is the thermostat opening point. No matter how cold your oil gets, if your thermostat is working properly it will not open until the coolant hits 170 Deg. F. This in effect closes off the radiators until the engine warms to 170. The only way the coolant will not reach 170 is if the thermostat is not working and stuck open and the ambient riding temperature is very cool or cold. I don't believe you would be able to make oil cool enough to counteract the engine warming effects of a closed thermostat and warm or hot coolant. The whole idea of the cooling system is to maintain engine operating temperature of approx 170 deg. (thermostat opens) to 210 Deg. ( fan turns off after turning on at 220 and cooling down to 210 deg.)

    The funny thing here is we run roughly the same amount of oil as we run coolant. The oil's primary job is lubrication but aids in cooling. ( less friction = less heat) Treat the oil as a coolant and run it through its own radiator and it will further help dissipate heat. Most of the oil sits in the sump and gearcase which is not the best place to either help warm a cold engine or dissipate heat.

    The coolant will do a much better job of warming and cooling the engine but on the real hot days in traffic I'm sure this mod will help. I would go to Amsoil.com and ask one of their engineers if adding additional capacity to an oil cooler could make oil too cool for an engine. I don't know what the pour point for Amsoil Motorcycle 10w-40 is, but I know the Amsoil 0w-40 I use in the snowmobiles is -60 degrees. I don't think this mod will get it too cold to flow.

    Last question, is there any concern on clearence with a taller oil cooler. Could the front wheel bottom out on a large bump and come in contact with the bottom of the larger oil cooler?
     
  12. Arnzinator

    Arnzinator New Member

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    Isn't the idea behind increasing cooling capacity of the lubrication system to prolong the life of the lubricant. Therefore prolonging the life of what is being lubricated?
     
  13. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    That's an added benefit. The first goal is to get heat out of the engine.

    More info on the Suzuki system I mentioned previously: Suzuki Advanced Cooling System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Rode about 100 miles or so today in 80deg F heat. My first impression (haven't rode enough to have an opinion) is that the change does shed heat faster. Won't do anyone any good if their problem is 30mph stop and go traffic, in which case you should be driving a car with AC not wearing out expensive bike tires.

    I sat at a light and watched the temps climb to 206. Light turned green and ran 30mph or less for a block or so to the highway on-ramp. Temps held at 206. Once on the highway at 75mph in clean air, I shed 20degrees to 186 in under 2 miles.

    Best I can come up with until I ride with someone else and try to compare.
     
  14. stoops

    stoops New Member

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    Did you add more than the normal quantity of oil to the system?
     
  15. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    I work from gallon jugs :boobies4: so I couldn't say for certain. I'm pretty sure the gallon I started with was new. It took all of that one and about another 1/4 quart.

    Factory service manual says 4.0qt capacity at disassembly so that might make sense.
     
  16. Durk

    Durk New Member

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    This is photoshop Tink's oil cooler hasn't arrived yet.
     
  17. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    Don't hate just cuz I can swap an oil cooler faster than you can get your Heli-bars installed.
     
  18. Guj

    Guj New Member

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    Install burn.
     
  19. Deadsmiley

    Deadsmiley Member

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    ROTFLMAO! :chaingun:
     
  20. dino71

    dino71 New Member

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    Hey Tink, I have a question to pose to you. If I were doing this mod I would be concerned with oil pressure and what it should be at lets say 4000 rpm compared to what it should be at 10,000 rpm. Do you think by adding the larger oil cooler that you might lower your oil pressure because of the added drag due to the doubling in size of the radiator. I do not know what path the oil takes in the radiator but I can assume it's twice that of the OEM one?
     
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