6Th Gen VFR - WHY Do Stators Go Bad? Two Toasted In Two Weeks...

2003 VFR. New to me almost exactly a year ago. This is my 4th VFR (and the only one to ever have any electrical issues, at all). She HAS had the warranty harness thingy done in 2012 by PO. Read on:

The ORIGINAL stator lasted for a pretty damn reasonable 52,XXX miles (11 years!), before finally croaking 13 days ago (Tue 5/20/14). I didn't know it was fried, that day, but that knowledge would come a few days later...

I was told by the shop I took it to that morning of (Tue 5/20 - this happened on my ride to work), that my problem was my R/R and nothing else. I would normally have towed my bike straight to a different mechanic that I've been taking all of my bikes to for over a decade, but he had just banged up his spinal cord (Bruised it! Yes, you can do that!) in a race 48 hours earlier (Sunday) when he landed on his head, and was not answering his phone because he was in the hospital (of course, I didn't know this at the time). Point being, I would normally have access to a pretty electrically-inclined motochanic who knows pretty much all there is to know about motorcycle electronics, but since he was decidedly unavailable, I took it to "Lynnwood Motoplex", which was just a four block walk from my work - I figured they'd still be able to at least tell me what parts were having continuity problems and in need of replacement.

Based on their assessment, I order a Rick's MOSFET regulator/rectifier (http://www.wiremybik...fier-p-325.html) AND a VFRness (hadn't been done yet by P.O., though the standard "wire harness under warranty" HAD, and it was never melted - I just wanted to be proactive and it had already been on my mind to do). The R/R and VFRness arrived a few days later (Friday before Memorial Day weekend), because I had it all shipped fast, and Tightwad (http://www.vfrdiscus...11291-tightwad/) over on VFRD, busted his butt to make sure I had all I needed (well as far as I knew based on what Motoplex had told me...) to still be able to get my bike fixed up and be on the road for a long weekend of riding that had been planned for a long time. So, I install the R/R in the Motoplex parking lot, after work on Friday 5/23, and have my wife follow me home in our car, and everything seems to by jivin' just fine.

The battery had been on trickle charge for three days and was topped off, so no concerns. IF I had had my plug-in voltage monitor with me (http://www.amazon.co...1?ie=UTF8&psc=1), it would have immediately told me that my stator was bad, but it was at home in a different riding jacket and, again, the mechanic "pros" at the shop had assured me the R/R was all I had to replace, so I blithely rode away toward home thinking I've fixed the problem. Except I only made it 7 miles. Tow #2 in 4 days. 3-day weekend of riding ruined. Fuck me.

Dead bike:



So, I took the (ruined) weekend to confirm what I already know - that the Motoplex mechanics had mis-diagnosed the problem (I don't actually KNOW that the original R/R was bad, because I didn't test it myself, and I didn't see them do it - I just trusted them), and that the stator is actually what was 100%, for sure, BAD. Yup:


I ordered a new Rick's stator (via Tightwad on VFRD aka wiremybike.com) and get it a few days later. It LOOKS like heaven in a box:


So I get it installed...




No issues with the install. Fire it up and bam, I'm back in business. Starts right up and I'm immediately at 14.45 volts, as soon as I turn it on:

So, my dad and brother, who came all the way up here to Washington (from Cali) to ride for 3 days, along with a few other uncles/cousins and their friends, are as stoked as I am when I call them at 11pm and let them know everything's good - we get to RIDE together (it's a rare thing because of living 1,000 miles away) for three whole days! So, wife and I mount up the next morning and take off to meet them in Tacoma (we live in Bellevue, about an hour north). No issues on the ride down. Everything's purrin'. I keep the charger-port voltage meter plugged in for the ride down and everything's between 14.3 volts and 14.6 volts the entire ride. So we start our ride as a group, headed north up the Kitsap Peninsula. After lunch in Port Townsend, my bro and I branch off to pick up the pace a bit (with wife still on the back of my bike). Wife takes a pic of us boys in front of this rig:

Go to turn the bike back on and I got nothin'. I mean I have lights and the dash comes on, but the dreaded clock re-set means only one thing. Stator shit the bed. I'm like, there's no fricking way the stator died after less than 160 miles and only being installed for 15 hours. But, after some helpful folks (where the lifted car pic was taken) sent us to Port Townsend Honda about an hour before they closed, we came across the truth. The mechanic there had a multi-meter (something I'll never leave home without, again - or a spare R/R AND stator!) and we tested the stator connector (what connects to the R/R) to ground - each of the three connectors for yellow wires A/B/C, and we had continuity across each one (we got a greater than nothing on ohms) - which is not what you want. Continuity test to ground should be "infinity". See post # 4, here, for ref: http://www.vfrdiscus...ity#entry948902

Anyways, it's obviously dead, but just for the shit of it, and because we had like 5 hours of waiting around for a tow truck, we decided to check out the 160-mile-old Rick's stator, and lo and behold:





Wife not happy about our situation:

I can't 100% for certain blame the Rick's stator, not without getting back in to the bike (which we basically could only afford to have to towed to my uncle's in Yelm - was still $500 - so bike is an hour and a half away from me right now, while I wait for OEM stator to arrive), but for now, I'm going with it was just a bad unit, and I personally can't recommend the Rick's STATORS. I have no problem with the MOSFET R/R they make, so far...in fact I think I'll buy another Rick's R/R to keep in the bike as a back-up in my "oh shit kit".

Towing from Port Townsend Honda to uncle's place...


The Rick's stator has been sent back for refund and analysis, but from what the folks at Port Townsend Honda were telling me, they refuse to buy the Rick's stators anymore because "their quality has gone downhill the last few years" (I'm using nicer words than they used) - they only use OEM stators for whatever kind of bike their working on, but especially Honda. I wish I had remembered if they had commented on if they still buy R/R's from Rick's, but I don't. The MOSFET - type that Rick's manufactures sounds to be advanced compared to the Honda OEM R/Rs, so I hope it keeps workin' for me and everyone else who has a Rick's R/R. I will be installing a Honda OEM stator probably next weekend and will re-Ox-gard everything and quadruple check everything else, but I'm pretty darn sure I just got a bad stator from Rick's and I don't intend to trust them again.

By the way, this is a pretty damn good deal on our VFR Battery, if you're in the market for a new one: http://www.amazon.co...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Sooo, the million dollar question: WHY does a 6th gen Honda VFR stator go bad? Heat, I assume. It's been postulated by Auspanol over at VFRD in reply to this posting of mine over there(http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/78218-6th-gen-why-do-stators-go-bad-two-toasted-in-two-weeks/page-2), that the "cooling oil spray distribution pattern problem [is] inherent to the 6th gen due to [the] VTEC oil conduit that blocks the orifice for said purposes (basically because the 5th gen doesn't have this conduit pipe blocking said orifice, 5th gens don't fry [as] many stators". His pics explaining what he's talking about, are on page 3 of that thread. I think he may be on to something. Feedback, people of VFRWORLD - let's here it.

 

Nice write up! Nice pictures, funky rear tyre you got there. I am not a big ricks fan, I go with OEM most times, I have http://roadstercycle.com/index.htm
regulator on my latest project and have an oem one on my other Honda. They are both Mosfit units with robust fins. All connections are soldered and heat shrinked. My other bike burnt oot two or three oem stators. Its a good charger now, but the entire wiring harness was upgraded.

It comes down to cheapness, they use lousy wires which can't take the heat, thats a streamlined answer there are some electrical engineers here from :canada: that I am sure will chime in. Its all been dragged through the ashes before, "they say" your not an official VFR owner unless the dreaded rr-stator combo bit you in the arse.

btw, like them neon chevrons on your bags, if I rode that here, they would think I am the constabulatory. :thumbsup:

 

Wow..............:hss:
Nice write up and sorry about your Electrical problem :sad:
You not the only one in the last couple day. Another member here Dfns also go thru the same issue.
I wish you and DMS all the best and hope you can get her fix up and source out the problem.
http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthread.php/45596-Electrical-Gremlins-continue-to-piss-me-off

 

Blainerides, do you have a lot of electrical accessories wired into your bike?

 

Wow, that's an expensive disappointment. I've read too many stories about the Rick's stator failing after 6 months or a year to purchase one. OEM will fail eventually, but seem to last about 40k or so on average.

Has anyone figured out how to direct more cooling oil spray at the upper part of the stator? Might not be worth the cost of modification.

 

Trouble in the plug, melting or burning, between stator and r/r will kill a stator immediately if any two wires touch within the semi-molten plug.

 

Found excellent series on stators and systems on another site, seems Honda's aren't the only ones with problems. Also Mercury engines in cigarette boats!


http://www.thegsresources.com/garage/gs_statorfail.htm

 

Arzinator: No, I wouldn't say so. I have a plug-in for my phone charger, and heated grips (though they aren't even wired in, right now, and they'll be going through this fuse block, when they do: http://www.wiremybike.com/vfr-specific-parts-2002-2009-vfr-parts-2002-2009-vfrness-bundle-p-267.html - no heated clothes or aux lights, if that's what you mean.

All: Wondering if a RC51 oil cooler will just bolt on to my 6th gen: http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthread.php/40195-5th-Gen-VFR800-Oil-Cooler-Swap >>> in doing so, I hypothesize that it would, well, keep the oil "25% cooler", which might be just what the doctor ordered...if that stator don't a-like-a da heat-a, let's cool down the oil as much as possible, eh? Thoughts?

 

From all the articles I have read and my own experience, stators generally go bad due to wiring faults, bad connectors or another device.

VFR stators put out 0.47 kilowatts at 5000 rpm. Thats about 40 amps, divided between 3 phases or 13-14 amps per phase. Then consider that the R/R units rectify each phase then COMBINE them into a single output. If the R/R fails or there is a problem past the R/R, each phase of the stator will heat up under the excessive load, not generally the stator's fault, it just keeps on pushing current until insulation on windings fail, (I doubt engine/flywheel/stator gets hot enough to toast insulation). Always best to check each phase (yellow wire) to ground before installing new stator, just to be sure no problems in manufacturing.