98 VFR800 motor upgrade question

Discussion in 'General VFR Discussions' started by wildstang, Oct 15, 2012.

  1. wildstang

    wildstang New Member

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    ive looked around on various websites for motor specs for the race version motor specs since the VFR800 is a de-tuned race motor used on the VFR800 models. ive been looking and checking with honda dealers for what is needed to return the de-tuned motor back to race spec with little luck. the only headway ive made is with UK dealers since USA dealers are unwilling or just refuse to give any info as requested.
    the UK dealer is willing to sale me the ECU used but only the UK street version ECU, wich is actually a better ECU capable of releasing an extra 10 HP over the US model ECU. has anyone else tried to return there current VFR800 back to a race spec motor on this site?
    if so any info would be appreciated.
    the closest feasible process would be to upgrade the ECU with the UK version and install power comander 3 by dynojet and the LCD program adjustable interface controller to custom tune fuel maps and have 5 fuel maps available on the fly availability.
    UK ECU has more aggresive timing curves then US model ECU obviously and would net better HP and torque gains teamed up with dynojet comander 3 over using the US ECU.
    but im still looking for at least the specs on the race version motor of HP&TQ figures
    any info would be appreciated.
     
  2. Durk

    Durk New Member

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    From what I've seen on here, you're not going to get a lot of info.
    There was never any interest in aftermarket engine mods. A lot of the modding on here is suspension and electrical.
    The only real engine mods I've heard of is a big bore kit and some over sized valves.
    The 5th gen is tuned for 86 octane, so it has to have a tame timing curve. It's very possible the UK one has more aggresive timing.
    If you do get the UK ECU I'm sure there would be some interest from the 5th gen crowd to see the dyno results and the difference b/w the UK and the US ECU.
     
  3. reg71

    reg71 Poser Staff Member

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    hmm, I'm not sure how much bang for your buck you'll get. I've heard that traditional upgrades like porting and polishing and the like can get pretty pricey on the gear driven cam models. I'm not a mech so I don't really know if that would even add anything to the bike. I do know that you can still get the supercharger from Toro last I heard, though. That's adds a little kick. I'd drop a little weight and tune suspension before I messed with that, though.
     
  4. wildstang

    wildstang New Member

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    thanks for the replies. im an avid automotive mechanic and do all my own mechanic work regardless of being auto, bike, or boat. i havent torn into the bikes motor yet do to it hasnt had any mechanical failures yet but eventually i will have the heads off in time to touch up the valve seats and such needed areas. i do know this winter it will need new clutch discs, steels, and spring kit tho. in regards to the porting and polishing yes it is free HP for me because i also do that type of work also. but most head castings have gotten much better over the years not needing much cleanup in the valve pockets as earlier models.
    it would appear honda dosent want to provide much info in regards to there race motor. guess im gonna just have to go the UK ECU route and dynojet fuel managment route. from reading up on the dynojet products website i can store up to 5 fuel maps with the lcd interface module and be able to switch mapping for rated octanes but dont have the versatility to alter the timing curves. guess the slightly more aggressive UK ECU will be better then nothing.
    spend some dyno time in the near future with the upgrades added is in order.
     
  5. wildstang

    wildstang New Member

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    luckily previous owner has made the suspension upgrades and brake upgrades already on the bike. its now just in need of some minor engine mods to free up HP that it origanally had to begin with. from talking with the UK dealer mechanics ive learned that the VFR800 motor has the potential to make 150+ on 110 octane. none have access or are willing to release me any links to charts or graphs on the motor tho. i know also its not feasible to have a tune for 110 octane on the street due to availability of fuel but i order it by the drum for my autos i race.
     
  6. wildstang

    wildstang New Member

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    with the proper tune and mods that puts the VFR800 in hayabusa teritory, due to weighing near 500lbs lighter. quite frankly im suprised there hasnt been more people in search of these mods other then me. guess it takes a true gear head always in search of more power like me always making mods to my rides motors even my grocery getter cars motors have been modified were feasible.
     
  7. bikeman

    bikeman New Member

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    I think you got the wrong bike, you can dump shart tons of money into the engine and you will still get handled by any modern liter sport bike, probably 600's too. You need an rc51 or cbr, lots of upgrade stuff there i would figure.
     
  8. wildstang

    wildstang New Member

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    lol i guess everyones entitled to there own opinion. previous owner i bought the bike from has made various mods such as -2 front sprocket +3 rear and suspension mods also. ive had the bike on our local track and have beaten cbr1000's and various other 600's.
    but as far as how fast a person can get there bike thru the traps is 99% driver not machine lol
     
  9. wildstang

    wildstang New Member

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    also the RC51 is rated at 118hp runnin6g 10.8-1 compression, the rc46 is rated at 110hp running 11.6-1 compression. 11.6-1 ratio will benefit with higher octane fuel producing better power over a larger cc motor running 10.8-1.
    honda racing used this particular motor combination for a reason over the inline 4cyl models.
    if you look at the UK VFR800 specs its making just as much HP as the RC51 with less displacement.
     
  10. wildstang

    wildstang New Member

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    anyone one with basic mechanic knowledge will know in order to make power you run higher cylinder pressures to make more power. any motor with a rating of 11.6.1 ratio has the potential to make more power over 10.1 motor. in order to make a motor with 11.6.1 run on pump 86 fuel they had to retard the piss out of ignition timing to stave off detonation. common sense tells you if you take advantage of the 11.6.1 ratio and run premium pump or 110 race fuel with an aggressive timing curve to take advantage of the fuel your going to make more power. the RC46's detuning procedure from the factory also eliminated 2000rpm of the top end of the motor, and how thats done is thru the ECU and fuel mapping.
    according to UK dealers the race motors redline is in the 12,000 rpm range wear the detuned street version has been reduced to the 10,000rpm range thru electronic meens. thats another reason why honda dosent want to release info or sale race parts to the general public.
     
  11. smack doogle

    smack doogle New Member

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    What VFR800 has been raced professionally and who raced it? Was it in AMA? I'm not the expert by any means but I've been watching moto racing for a minute and have even been to the HONDA Collection Hall and never saw a VFR800 race bike.

    Here is a pic of one of the last successful professional RVFs to be raced (1997) and it was a 750.

    [​IMG]


    Here's the bike

    [​IMG]


    Here's a pic of the Original FWS that is suppossedly what our beloved 1984-1986 VF1000R is modeled after

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    and one of me on a much more recent v4 800. This is me on a 2011 800cc RCV2XX. I think it was one of Dan Pedrosa's bikes. This bike shares absolutely nothing with any production Honda V4

    [​IMG]
     
  12. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    Norcalboy is one of the few here who's probably done the research you're after and built the most custom 800 I've heard of.

    I do know, knew, a guy who lead every ride on his 800 over all the litre bikes with just suspension and PC upgrades. Most of it by far the rider until you get to the track.

    Still, I think the numbers you are hearing are inflated without custom internals OR the supercharger.
     
  13. wildstang

    wildstang New Member

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    i had never said the VFR800 was raced i merely said the motor used on the VFR800 is in fact a detuned race motor for the general publics VFR800. google it if you doubt me.
     
  14. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    not sure that you're spot on.

    Here's the family tree:
    Honda Worldwide | Honda Force V4 Story
     
  15. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    looking at Honda's own website, the VFR800 motor used in what's commonly referred to as the 5th generation (along with the 6th & 7th), short of having 4 cylinders in the shape of a V, were not linked to any race models.

    slide 8 of my above link.

    if you've got some other intel', I'm all ears
     
  16. wildstang

    wildstang New Member

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    Rather than being a direct development of the previous carbureted VFR750F engine, the VFR800 engine was a detuned and longer-stroke power plant based on the fuel-injected RC45 race engine. The RVF750R RC45 engine, although a development of the VFR750R RC30 and originally derived from the VFR750F RC24, was very different as the gear drive to the cams was moved from the centre of the engine to the one side, similar to the CBR250. Tuned for road use in the VFR800, fuel injection provided excellent driveability and power was slightly increased over the VFR750. The most noticeable change, however, was that the torque figures were substantially improved from the previous model right up to the 11,750 rpm red line. All VFR800 models use fuel injection instead of carburetors for fuel-air mixing. In 2000, Honda updated the fifth generation VFR (RC46) with a catalytic converter, oxygen sensors, and an EFI system that would enter closed-loop mode under highway (cruising) operation.

    The VFR800 bodywork covered a frame derived from the VTR1000 Firestorm. It incorporates the VFR trademark single-sided swingarm pivoted from the aft of the crankcase, using the engine as a stressed member of the frame.

    Honda fitted its DCBS linked braking system, a departure from traditional independent front/rear motorcycle braking systems. In this system, the front brake lever applies pressure to four (in later models five) of the six front pistons. The rotational movement of the left caliper when engaged actuates a secondary master cylinder and applies pressure to one of the rear pistons. The rear brake pedal is directly attached to the remaining pistons (two in the rear, and one or two in the front).

    wikpedia ref
     
  17. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    Wiki?

    Which part of that are you taking to mean that a different ECU = 10hp?

    Just want to understand cuz if there's cheap hp to be found then I know we all want it.
     
  18. wildstang

    wildstang New Member

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    yes the UK ECU does not have to comply with the US epa standards do to they have there own set epa guidlines they follow so in effect the ECU sold on the european VFR800 has a slightly more aggressive factory fuel&spark curve then whats sold in the USA.
    UK ECU teemed with the dynojet power programmer 3 will yield more power versus the USA ECU, or just as a stand alone added part with no other mods will yield the plus 10hp. i havent added it yet and what im saying is soley based off of what the UK dealers mechanic stated.
    i have researched and pulled UK VFR800 specs from one of there websites and the UK honda website does list the increase the dealer stated
     
  19. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    did you check the UK part numbers on the camshafts too?

    Or the timing, lift, and duration listed in a UK service manual compared to a US 49states & Canada model (not California)?
     
  20. wildstang

    wildstang New Member

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    yes...the internals are the same as the US models. the only difference is in the ECU wich is not USA approved tho due to not meeting EPA standards here in the states.

    im sure theres other slight differences also from US -vs- UK VFR's but the engine internal components remain the same.
     
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