Carb problems with my 2nd Gen?

Discussion in '1st & 2nd Generation 1983-1989' started by slowbird, Sep 9, 2010.

  1. slowbird

    slowbird Member

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    I'm having a lot of problems with the bike ever since I took it to get the Cabs and Valves done.

    I took the bike to a local VF/VFR guru to get my carbs overhauled, and to inspect the valve clearances. He had the bike for 3 days and called me to say the bike was ready for pickup. He said the Carbs were good and only had just a bit of Varnish in the bowls. Intake Valves had a tad too much clearance and the Exhaust had a tadd too little clearance. They were adjusted to spec and everything else checked ok.

    I rode the bike home from his place which is about 62kms.

    When I got home the rad cap was spewing coolant. After it cooled down I refilled the system and after ensuring the rad cap was secure, took the bike for a nice Hour long ride and everything seemed fine. When I got home from that ride I noticed the Stator cover gasket was leaking oil. (later, the guy who worked on my bike admitted he removed the stator by accident. Something about being used to the VF’s where you needed to do that to turn the motor to check valve clearances) So I spent the next week flushing the coolant system and getting that leak fixed.

    While I was running the bike and burping the coolant system I noticed black smoke coming from the left exhaust pipe. The idle had a bit of a stumble to it too. I put it out of my head and got working on that stator cover. As I was lying beside the bike scraping old gasket off I looked up and noticed one of the carb boots was wet. I ran my hand along the bowl of the front left carb and my hand came back wet with gas. I immediately turned the Petcock to OFF and contacted the guy who worked on my bike. He agreed to come by on Monday to look at the bike. The days before he came by I got the Stator cover sealed with Honda Bond and (as per his request) drained that one Float bowl.

    I also removed the spark plug from the front Left cylinder and sprayed the tip with carb cleaner. I then put some motor oil on the threads and re-installed it.

    Monday comes around, and so does he. Of course the carbs aren’t leaking fuel. I started the bike and rode it around my court and there was grey/bluish smoke coming from the Left Pipe this time. He then checks the float bowl levels and he says they are all pretty close. I take the bike for a 15 minute ride around town and the bike performs well. No more smoke. No leaking carbs. Man goes home. I cover bike.

    This morning, I decided to take it to work.
    I haven't started it since that Monday when I went for that 15minute ride. The bike has been sitting in the driveway with the cover on it.

    I took the cover off of it and put my hand under the carbs and ran my fingers on them. They were wet with gas. (definitely gas)

    I tried starting the bike and with full choke (and only full choke) it started up but the idle was very low. After about a minute of idling the bike died. I was then unable to start it no matter how much (or how little) choke I gave it. Eventually I got it started with no choke and by cracking the throttle open while starting it. The bike would die if I didn't give it any throttle.

    I took it for a quick spin and it was stumbling and sputtering all over the RPM band. It would bog if I gave it too much throttle. I couldn't see any smoke coming from the exhaust while I was riding.

    After about 2 minutes of riding the bike started to behave and the sputtering and stumbling went away. I pulled into my drive way and put the bike on the kickstand and the bike immediately died. It was again very difficult to start.
    I can see the fuel leaking from the carbs onto the cylinder head.
    I just e-mailed the guy and asked him to come get my bike to fix it, cause it was running fine before I took the bike to him.

    Any ideas as what the problem could be?
     
  2. 02 VFR Rider

    02 VFR Rider New Member

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    sounds like he messed it up.
    How did you find out about this guy??
     
  3. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    .....and we thought your guy knew it all !!

    Stator cover removal was totally UNnessary for valve check as the engine can be rotated in at least 3 other ways: push bike in gear, quick touch of the starter button, or remove the inspection cover on clutch side to access crankshaft end with 17mm socket.

    Not a good idea to use choke for more than 20 seconds, so boost starting idle speed using the black adjustment knob.

    Your dripping could be bad float bowl gasket, bad float needle, or leaking fuel joint O-rings ( if he separated carbs for cleaning, which was also UNnecessary).
    Clues to narrow down problem can be found on sparkplugs since a leaky float needle--unlike a dripping bowl gasket--will colour one plug black and produce some black smoke from exhaust. A new float needle might be needed or just cleaning out some small flakes of rust or other junk from the needle seat.

    Also you might need a new rad cap, and be sure your fan is coming on automatically at about 2/3 temp scale. And consider flushing cooling system and replacing with fresh antifreeze, which should be changed every 3-4 years at least.
     
  4. slowbird

    slowbird Member

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    Yea.....does sound like it.

    I bought a part off him one day for my old VF500. I went into his work area and saw all the pictures off all the VF/VFR's. He did work on my VF500 and I had no problems. Another member of this forum went to him also and did a good job too.

    Yea, he admitted his mistake when I saw him on Monday. He said he removed the Stator cover and then remembered the access on the clutch side. Unfortunately, him removing the cover disturbed the old gasket, which was in pieces and caused a leak.

    -1 for him. :frown:

    I have a feeling he didn't properly clean out the carbs or adjust and re-synch them.

    I noticed no difference to the bike when I picked it up, and when he checked the float-bowl levels he even said they were "pretty close". Why aren't they very close....he just worked on those carbs :confused:

    Also I have a slight noise and vibration increase when the bike is in neutral and I let the clutch out. I read on here somewhere it's the carbs out of synch but it was still doing it after getting the bike back from him.

    When I pulled the Spark Plug it looked a bit fouled.

    Tried getting a new rad cap. It was back ordered. I flushed the cooling system already. Fresh coolant and thermostat.

    Squirrelman, I'll probably take a ride down to you one morning in the spring to have you properly tune and adjust these carbs.

    I guess we'll see what this guy does to fix my bike :frown:
     
  5. invisible cities

    invisible cities New Member

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    Did the tech remove the carburetors to inspect them?

    No free lunches here. You need to pull 'em and check all the circuits along with accurately setting the float height.

    Also, for the tool box I'd recommend a Morgan Carbtune Pro.

    http://www.carbtune.com/
     
  6. 02 VFR Rider

    02 VFR Rider New Member

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    I would also worry about the valve adjustment.
    if he did not do that right it would cause some issues.
     
  7. jahlov420

    jahlov420 New Member

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  8. slowbird

    slowbird Member

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    Define who a "pro' is?

    I've taken my VF500 to a couple shops that were "experts" and "professionals" but didn't know a thing about the older V-Fours.

    ....and unfortunately you won't know how well someone is at there work unless someone you know has had work done there or you go and see for yourself.
     
  9. jahlov420

    jahlov420 New Member

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    what i meant by pro was a shop that has been in business and while and knows alot about bikes....from ur post it sounded like u brought it to a dude's garage...my bike is the basically the same as yours and they did a vavle adjustment, spark plugs, crabs needed gaskets and cleaning, and a few other things and it hasn't given my any trouble for over a year. i'm just saying that i wouldn't trust my bike to just anyone.
     
  10. Dukiedook

    Dukiedook New Member

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    I hate it when my crabs need gaskets and cleaning.
     
  11. slowbird

    slowbird Member

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    He has been in business a very long time and knows a lot about bikes. 90% of the bikes he works on are VF and VFR's.

    He did an excellent job on my old VF500 and Mooses.

    It seems to me that he either did a half assed job, or (cause he's an old guy) made a lot of mistakes when working on my bike.

    Having said all that I am going to look for a set of carbs and start learning how to do this myself.

    LOL.
     
  12. Dukiedook

    Dukiedook New Member

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    As long as he didn't tear your diaphragms on your carbs you should be OK, like Squirrel said you will probably want to get a new float needle and gasket for that leaky bowl. Now is a good time to learn about how your carbs work and how to take them apart and work and clean them. After the first two times it becomes pretty easy regardless of the type you are working on.
     
  13. Michael E

    Michael E New Member

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    Man, I feel for you. Moved up from the frustrations of the 500 and the troubles are following you. I agree that something was not right with the thoroughness of this guys work. However, I also agree with you that a lot of younger techs (pros) at shops would not neccessarily do a good job on an old bike like this. As everyone here knows, you live and learn through experience working on these bike and trial and error. That's a luxury that a shop usually doesn't have without costing you $$$. You may luck out and find a shop with an old tech who has experience with these bikes, but I don't think that there are a lot around.
     
  14. crustyrider

    crustyrider New Member

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    dude maybe you just don't need a motorcycle.....go ahead and send it to
    Crusty's old bike rest home
    12458 Doowe Cheatam and Howe RD
    screwedabit, Ca 94577

    go ahead and send it now, I will have my people standing by waiting for the package..
     
  15. slowbird

    slowbird Member

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    Mike E....I agree with you 100% on that. Hit the nail on the head you did.

    LOL. I'll send you a paper bag with poop in it.

    If I open the float bowls and muck around in there won't I need to re-synch the carbs?
     
  16. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    A good shop or good mechanic always test-rides what they finished working on, both to confirm the work was done properly and to spot any other problems the owner might not have noticed.

    in your case, Slow, i'd like to know if the gent took the carbs off the alloy airbox base and separarated them or if he did a test ride.

    You can replace float bowl gaskets without disturbing carb synch, but i don't think that's your problem.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2010
  17. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Please consider doing it NOW, as --who knows??--i might not have the great shop i have now to work in come spring........
     
  18. slowbird

    slowbird Member

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    He did take it for a test ride. He said he did, plus the Odometer has more Klicks on it than when I dropped it off.

    The problem only seems to show if the bike sits for a bit. (and with the Petcock turned to ON)



    Is there trick to removing the tank without having all the gas come pouring our of the Fuel line that you disconnect from the Fuel filter?



    The bike doesn't run properly....how can i ride to the border with the carbs doing what they are doing. :frown:
     
  19. Hawkrider

    Hawkrider New Member

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    To prevent gas spillage, you can turn off the petcock and then run the bike for a bit to burn off some of the gas in the line. If it's a vacuum operated petcock then just take the vacuum hose off and this should remove it's functionality.

    Did you do a carb sync after the rebuild and the valve adjust? This could add to the bike not running correctly. I think the leakage is a separate problem, provided it's actually a leak and not gas *overflowing out* of the carbs. Also, if you're still using vacuum-operated petcocks then this leakage is indicative of other problems such as a faulty petcock (stuck open) and quite possibly a carburetor float valve that is bad. If this is the case you need to be very careful that the carbs don't spit fuel into the intakes and combustion chambers. The gas will mix with the oil and results can be destructive if not identified - wiped bearings, seized motor, etc.
     
  20. slowbird

    slowbird Member

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    I checked the crankcase. It's still on the level. So if gas went in it hasn't shown on the dipstick.

    Petcock to Off and the leaks stop around the carbs.

    I have the carbs out.....now what?
     
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