EFI on VF500F

Discussion in '1st & 2nd Generation 1983-1989' started by InterFester, Aug 30, 2011.

  1. InterFester

    InterFester New Member

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    Has anyone thought about this, seen anyone else do it? Compared to a bank of older CV carbs in a V-4 configuration, EFI conversion would not be all that complicated.

    I'm in the process of shimming the needles in my '84 and opening up the mixture screws a little bit. I hope I can get the idle and just off to my liking but if not then I may have to consider something else.
     
  2. invisible cities

    invisible cities New Member

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  3. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    You're a graduate in Mechanical and Computer engineering, right, and a skilled machinist with mills and cutters and lots of time, right ??

    The deal with this wacky :crazy: idea is that if you somehow can't get satisfactory running with your carbs on that bike, the many serious skills needed to get any better performance with FI is probably way beyond you.........and 99.5% of the guys reading this. Carbs are really dead-simple while Fi is as simple as 2 or 3 computers with many inputs.

    Even factory-designed and manufactured FI can have running issues that an additional device (PowerCommander) is needed to fix.

    Maybe time to think about sending your VF500 off to summer camp, then moving without forwarding address like my parents did to me.

    If you want FI, you'll need a bike that it was delivered with, not a rigged-up conversion.

    Considering "something different?" Try a different bike. :behindsofa:

    .........................................

    If you're having idle and running problems, have you done a compression test yet ?? Or checked valve clearances lately ??

    Or synched the carbs accurately ?? Or verified that the charging system is doing its job ??
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  4. TOE CUTTER

    TOE CUTTER Mullet Man

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    Oh, yes,,,,
     
  5. camo

    camo New Member

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    I would agree that carbs are the easy way.

    I built a manifold to convert a two CV carbed v twin to a single mechanical slide carb. It runs great but took a certain amount of fooling around. In my application The bike was fit with Hitachi carbs which were discontinued for good reason. They have a fuel passageway internally that had two right angle turns making near impossible to clean. I switched to a Mikuni VM slide type carb. The single carb doesn't require any synchronization.

    I would be interested in seeing what you could adapt to your motorcycle if you do. Perhaps something like an old GM TBI system with feedback. I think the V4 configuration would be near ideal for a single injector.

    Others have had good insight, it doesn't take a degree in engineering to make stuff work.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  6. bobthebiker

    bobthebiker New Member

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    a TBI setup isnt a bad idea, but persnaly, as much as I want FI on my VF, I know that it'll never work right because designing the intake tracts, the fuel system, programming the fuel pulse, quantity, TIMING, etc and making everything run well, is FAR more than I'm willing to do. I'm perfectly able, but just uninterested, I have more projects on my plate.

    if you can pull it off, more power to you. I personally would just learn how to tune what it has now. between valve clearance, good compression and good plugs, she should rumble nicely at idle. my 700 doesnt even hiccup after I tuned her well.
     
  7. Chris71Mach1

    Chris71Mach1 Insider

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    ive always wanted to see an EFI kit made for the 2nd gen bikes, but knowing all the insanity that would be involved in engineering one, i for one aint holding my breath.
     
  8. captb

    captb New Member

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    Unless your racing or ride alot at hi altitudes carbs are the simple and cheap way to go, I've had 42 bikes with carbs and never walked home due to a carb problem. FI can have numerous gltches with lots of pricey parts. I'm still baffled by FI on most bikes, my 1998 CBR1100XX has carbs and has never been apart and runs flawless, it gets 44 mpg on the road, friends with 99 and up FI Blackbirds (same HP) get 34 to 38 mpg and numerous other FI bikes get poor gas milage but most all cars get better mpg since going to FI.
     
  9. InterFester

    InterFester New Member

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    You must be an engineer cuz you give them way too much credit. :wink: Engineers don't come up with ways to do stuff, they come up with lots of reasons why you can't, when you actually can. You need to visit the MegaSquirt website and brush up on how EFI works when you aren't limited like the OEM's are. EFI isn't much different than an ignition system in operation.

    I just purchased another microSquirt ECU which is a completely tuneable stand alone compact ECU designed for motorcycles, snowmobiles or water craft. Might wanna Google it.

    I already converted an '87 Intruder 1400 from two Mikuni CV carbs. Single Buell 45mm throttle body with TPS, aluminum manifold I had welded to hold two Ford/Bosch fuel injectors. Harley FLT gas tank with in-tank fuel pump, draws less than 3amps and has return lines. Luckily the Intruder has a big enough alternator to handle the extra draw, one of my concerns with the VF. That and how to have a return line to the fuel tank, prolly have to make a plate to replace the petcock for fuel supply and return....also an injector small enough to idle a 125cc/~18hp cylinder, most automotive sizes are too big and I don't wanna use anything obscure if at all possible.

    Definitely no TBI, don't wanna go backwards with throttle response or power. A single TB would also make the runners different lengths.

    Valves are adjusted, carbs are synced, good compression, pulls hard up to redline. I'm fiddlin' with the mixture screws now, 1/2 turn more open than stock has improved cold idle and other high idle situations when riding. Might go another 1/4 turn and see. I'm gonna try a 1mm shim under the needle next.

    What all have you done tuning wise to your 700?
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2011
  10. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    topic comes up every six months. could be done, would be fun, but I'd recommend a more solid platform than a VF500. Soon as you got it figured out, the damn thing would drop a valve and shell out a piston.

    You'll never see anyone around here try it. They're all too cheap to put their bike on a dyno for proper tuning and are too worried about gutting the can instead.
     
  11. InterFester

    InterFester New Member

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    I figured by the responses they were tired of hearing people bring it up but felt compelled to boo hoo it anyway. I wonder if any of them run different than OE tires or brake pads that have not been approved by the engineer who designed their bike. :crazy: What, were they thinking they are smarter than an engineer?

    I'm gonna gut a can too!
     
  12. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    At the minimum, a pumper flat slide carb mod would be bad-ass.
     
  13. crustyrider

    crustyrider New Member

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  14. captb

    captb New Member

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    I have the FCR 39 flat slide Pumper on my DRZ400E, after removing the restrictor snorkle, installing MRD SSW exhaust and extensive jetting + needle changes and modifications to the accelerator pump to get the squirt timing where it needs to be, removing the coast enricher and tps it runs sweet, even with taller gearing it pulls strong, over 90 mph in the dirt on gps. It's equal in performance to my early XR600R twin carb with the same mods and the same weight 260 dry but only 400cc and the best part...estart. I did the numerous Loctite engine mods at 100 miles required to make it reliable, never did any such thing on the big Honda XRs in 25 years on them, so I'll have to see if the DRZ holds up like the XRs in the long run.
     
  15. invisible cities

    invisible cities New Member

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    This is way to broad a brush.

    I do agree though that the first step in installing an EFI system is to upgrade the VF500F's valve train.

    InterFester, these type of projects are very much welcome here.

    Keep thinking big but please keep in mind that the best investment for the 500 is a suspension upgrade followed by a valve train upgrade.

    If you are interested in reading up on the valve train upgrade, some good intel can be found here:

    http://vfrworld.com/forums/1st-2nd-generation-1983-1989/28596-vf500f-valves-3.html#post272236

    Also, I read above that you are running your 500 to its redline. I know this is fun (and very easy) to do but owning a stock 500 comes with this mantra:

    • Let the bike properly warm up (read 'hot') before running
    • Use a high grade of motor oil and change frequently
    • Adjust the valves per the factory maintenance schedule
    • Keep the rev's in check
    500s are great bikes with lots of potential but do keep in mind that you own a vintage bike and as such some upgrades should come before others.
     
  16. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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  17. InterFester

    InterFester New Member

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    A (singular, one, independent, not synced or spaced or arranged with other carbs in a particular space defined layout) pumper flat slide would be slick and highly tuneable. I really love a healthy more modern CV carb on anything provided they are easy to adjust. Early Goldwings had terrible CV carb set ups and suffered some of the same issues the VF500 does. Strange idle, lack of crisp throttle response at times etc. Usually fine in the midrange and upper revs. More modern CV's don't have this issue.

    I'm not worried about dynoing the bike or persuing maximum horsepower. I'd only consider doing this if I cannot improve driveability in the lower off idle area.

    I don't know that I have actually revved to redline, more like straight up on the tach, whatever that may be. I do agree that redline has not been necessary in my recent rides. I've lived in Knoxville for about 2 1/2 years and just this week slayed the Dragon and Foothills Parkway for the first time, and lived! Really didn't need redline at any point thru there.

    As far as hot before running, please explain. Now with the mixture screws out a bit more than factory, the engine will take throttle and can be ridden slowly down the street after about 1 to 2 minutes of warm up, impossible before. I keep the rpm under 4k and under 30mph as I make the 1/2 mile jaunt to a main highway, 45mph speed limit. So maybe max 5 minute warm up before 45mph. Is this wrong?

    Is there an oil thread (there always is isn't there) on the VF500? I read or heard somewhere that fully synthetic oil will ruin the OE style clutch plates. True or Balgerdash? I am currently running Castrol Actevo 10w40.
     
  18. invisible cities

    invisible cities New Member

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    Let the engine properly warm up (this is more than the time it takes to put on your gloves, jacket and helmet) before you start riding.

    There are a whole bunch of opinions on motor oil. Here is my recommendation:

    [​IMG]
     
  19. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    The dyno comment is in reference to folks who remove the snorkel or gut the can and assume they've outsmarted Honda engineers adding 5hp to their ride. As opposed to doing a pre and post dyno run with exhaust gas analysis to properly tune.

    Properly warming before riding is in reference to cam design flaws on this model.
     
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