Electrical Loads

Discussion in '6th Generation 2002-2013' started by Jeff_Barrett, Apr 16, 2016.

  1. Jeff_Barrett

    Jeff_Barrett Member

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    So, I've been riding my bike in some pretty cold (sub-freezing) temperatures on and off this spring.

    Nice weather finally hit and I go to take my bike to work, put the key in, and turn it .... *click*click* ... no juice.

    Ok. That's weird, it was working fine before this all spring. So I get out the battery from the VF1000F and jump start it. *vroom* ... success! I let it warm up, turn my heated grips on, and plug in my heated jacket liner just before departing. All is well with an enjoyable / uneventful ride to work.

    At the end of the day (it's about 61F out at this time), I hop back on the bike. No heated liner or grips required. It's a beautiful day. I put the key into the ignition, turn it, and ... *click*click* .... are you effin' kidding me???

    One of the guys boosts me from his car and I'm off. Sadly, I had to stop for fuel and turn the bike off. Yup. Dead battery again (keep in mind - I'm commuting 45 mins or so on the highway). Get boosted and get home.

    I pull out the meter and the battery is low- I instantly order a new battery (I didn't have my battery load tester at home). I picked up the new battery today - they tested my old battery there and it was just starting to go weak. The minute I get home, I plug the new battery into the bike and charge it up ... ~ 13.15v resting. Perfect ... bike fires up right away and test the charging voltage @ 5000 rpm ... only about 14.15 but acceptable (I haven't done the connectors on this new bike yet so I expected it to be a bit lower). I turn on the headlights and it drops then comes back up to about the same.

    At this point, I'm a little concerned so I start digging deeper. Leakage current is about ~2.3mA with and without the stator connected. Perfect.

    I tested the resistance across all the coils ... ~0.3 - 0.4. Perfect.

    I tested to make sure there wasn't any continuity to ground from the coils, checked continuity between the R/R and the battery, and continuity between the green wires and ground. Perfect.

    Everything seems to check out with the exception of the slightly lower than expected charging voltage (I'm used to seeing a minimum of 14.3v and a high of about 14.8v from my other 2002).

    I reconnect everything and start the bike to let it warm up. Once it's warmed up I checked the following:

    Battery Resting (Ignition Off) = 13.15v (OK)
    Battery (Ignition On @5000 RPM) = 14.15v (OK but within spec of the manual)
    Battery (Ig. ON @ 5000 RPM w/Hi-Beams) = 14.15v
    Battery (Ig. ON @ 5000 RPM w/Hi-Beams + Heated Grips) = 13.8v
    Battery (Ig. ON @ 5000 RPM w/Hi-Beams + Heated Grips + Heated Liner) = 12.3v

    Hmmm. I think I know what killed my battery. It should not be dropping this much. It never dropped that low with my 2002 and the heated grips (I didn't have the heated liner yet).

    Stator or R/R? I'm leaning towards the R/R ... Thoughts? Suggestions? Am I asking too much from the stator and regulator/rectifier?

    At the max between the grips and jacket liner - I'm pulling 10.4 amps or less according to specs.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2016
  2. Jeff_Barrett

    Jeff_Barrett Member

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    Well .... after a little digging, I think I have my answer.

    The manual states that the stator produces 0.47kW (470 Watts / 39.16A) excluding HIGH-BEAMS.

    I found a stat indicating the bike pulls (333W / 27.75A)

    That means I'd be left with approximately 11.41A to work with.

    6.4A - Jacket Liner Max
    4.0A - Heated Grips Max

    ... total of 10.4A ... that leaves 1.01A left to play with - PROVIDED that everything is operating at full theoretical efficiency.

    First thing I'm going to do - beef the wiring up on this bike finally (I put it off all winter) like I did my last one which held a steady 14.8v.

    I'll retest at that point - then start converting my bulbs to LED.

    If anyone has information conflicting with this, please let me know so I can re-evaluate. :)
     
  3. Jeff_Barrett

    Jeff_Barrett Member

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    Started the new redundant charging system wiring this evening.

    I had to stop though as I ran out of Red 12g Primary wire, and I'm also short 2 fuse holders. I'll be doing a supply run tomorrow to Princess Auto after the brunch at my in-laws and finishing it tomorrow night. It's supposed to be beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeuuuuuuatiful on Monday and Tuesday here.
     
  4. Knight

    Knight New Member

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    I was wondering if you had yet given this bike the "Jeff treatment" to remove all losses. I did not want to speak up, knowing how detail oriented you are I did not want to offend you. :)

    I totally agree with you, although that is partially due to you schooling me on your wiring upgrades, a self-fulfilling prophesy LOL. The issues are the total output, losses due to age and corrosion, including insufficient grounding that would raise the potential of the ground side and reduce power flow.

    Have you seen the stator? Do you know if it is OEM? I am also concerned that you jump started the motorcycle and used the charging system to charge the dead battery during the commute. That act can fry the charging components. Thus the system condition is different since the first battery death. Both the rectifier and stator are now suspect.

    At work do you have an inductive power meter to put on the stator lines? There is your empirical data on its output. BTW if you could do this I have a proposed experiment that requires such :)
     
  5. Jeff_Barrett

    Jeff_Barrett Member

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    I hope to finish the "Jeff Treatment" tonight. :)

    I did not pull the stator cover, but I suspect it's the OEM one since the original owner insured / rode it for 7 of the 13 years they owned it, and it only had 9,900km's (~6,200 miles) on it when I picked it up at the end of last summer.

    I'll try to snap some photos this time as well for those who haven't seen what I did the last time. This one will be a lot cleaner than my last install - the whole hindsight is 20/20 is actually worth something this time.

    I do not have a meter that can test inductance (well - I do but I seem to have misplaced my good meter while working on some of my RC projects). Though, I too am also concerned about the components trying to charge the weak battery. It was holding a charge(and charging) - but under load it was failing.

    Regardless, I'll have some new data tonight.
     
  6. Knight

    Knight New Member

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    To clarify what I meant by "inductive power meter": A power meter that clamps around AC lines for ease of measurement, not an inductance meter.
     
  7. Jeff_Barrett

    Jeff_Barrett Member

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    Yup. I knew what you meant. :)

    I have one, but it is hiding from me ATM - it was the first thing I looked for when I started to do "the drill" and make sure everything was in spec. I'm miffed with myself that I didn't put it back where it belongs. It will turn up - eventually.
     
  8. Jeff_Barrett

    Jeff_Barrett Member

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    UPDATE

    I finished late last night installing the new redundant wiring into the bike.

    Happy to say that I'm now getting a steady 14.52v ... that's up from 14.15v.

    The voltage only dips when I have everything plugged in and set to the highest heat settings, and the hi-beams on. Even then, it only dips down to 13.58v which will still be charging the battery (resting voltage of the battery is 13.15v)

    I'm going to flip some of the bulbs over to LED to give a little extra overhead and re-test.

    I took some photos of what I did to share with you all this time. I'll post them later. It's almost time to get my gear on and head to work in a bit.
     
  9. Knight

    Knight New Member

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    Wow great work. Sounds like the charging components are all good too. All for a bit of sweat and a strand of wire. Excellent.
     
  10. Jeff_Barrett

    Jeff_Barrett Member

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    Alright, as promised ... here's what I did in a diagram (credit goes to someone else from the 'other' place):

    gallery_11167_3051_28948.jpg

    First, I spliced a second set of wires / connectors between the R/R and the Stator. I used high quality bullet connectors, 14g primary yellow wire, heat shrink and some dielectric grease to prevent oxidization.

    To splice the wires, I simply stripped some of the insulation away and parted the strands to make a hole. I stuck the new wire into that hole and took half the strands and wrapped them around each side, then finished with solder and electrical tape.

    IMG_20160417_223521.jpg

    IMG_20160417_224855.jpg

    IMG_20160417_230347.jpg

    Next, I took some 12g primary green wire and a crimped ring connector. I soldered the ring connector after crimping, and then bolted it to the frame where the fairing standoff is. Then I soldered the ends to the R/R green wires off the 6P connector. I did not use connectors this time since this is an easy mod to snip away and solder back on if I need to replace the R/R.

    IMG_20160417_230611.jpg

    IMG_20160417_231418.jpg

    Next, I took TWO 3' lengths of 12g Red Primary Wire, and ONE 3' length of 14g Black Primary wire. I stripped the ends and put them all into another ring connector, crimped, and soldered it. I wrapped electrical tape down 2/3 of the length, and routed the end with the ring to the battery under the spine of the sub frame.

    Once that was done, I finished routing wiring to the R/R 6P wires, cut the excess off an soldered some mini fuse holders (I put 20A fuses in each) on all 3 lines, and repeated the same soldering process that I did with the ground wires (for the two RED wires). For the BLACK wire (voltage monitor wire), I crimped on a female spade connector, connected it to the black spade (which I pulled out of the 6P connector) and wrapped it with electrical tape.

    IMG_20160417_232012.jpg

    IMG_20160417_232028.jpg

    IMG_20160417_232749.jpg

    I recommend this for any VFR as the gains were very noticeable. If you have questions let me know.

    As to why I kept the stock wiring connections - if I ever have a problem on the road, or the side of the road, I need the OEM wiring for a quick fix. I can always reconnect the redundant wiring when I get to where I'm going or home. :)
     
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  11. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Careful there Jeff, you could ruin Knights manicure with all that DIY fixing you are doing.
     
  12. Jeff_Barrett

    Jeff_Barrett Member

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    Nothing wrong with a good MANicure.
     
  13. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Curses! Nailed again..
     
  14. redwing750

    redwing750 New Member

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    Nice work Jeff, and I can tell you're an RCer.

    I did put off the connector delete because there is NO extra wire length (at least on Gen 6) where the plug resides.

    I am going to do it, and thought the XT60 triple would be the kitty's derriere. I would heat shrink over the plug to prevent it pulling apart.

    3 pin XT60.jpg

    The one concern I have is they are solder type, not crimp. Even still they'll pass more current before they melt -than any crapass factory spade connector.

    The fact that big H used weatherproof conns on some junctions and not others is disappointing at the least!
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2016
  15. Jeff_Barrett

    Jeff_Barrett Member

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    Thanks! I hope it helps others.

    Ooo ... yeah, those XT60's would work good. I had some regular XT60's on hand but opted for the 3mm bullets that take less space under the fairing.

    If you have a good solder connection, you have nothing to worry about. If the connector gets hot enough to make the solder fluid again, then you have bigger issues. Use a higher grade solder that requires more heat (less tin / lead - more silver) if you're concerned.
     
  16. redwing750

    redwing750 New Member

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    Yep, only genuine lead electronic solder!

    For the last few years I've done all my additional/replacement wiring with silicone noodle wire to eliminate possible wire fatigue.
    The fine strand stuff also has a higher capacity for the same gauge standard copper, and solders a-so nice.

    Thought I'd add I had issues with the Cree LED in the taillight, they are long to the point that roadshock was loosening them up, being push sockets.

    So using standard 7443 bulbs for now, but I have a set of these on the way to try-

    https://www.pepboys.com/product/details/1164574/00145

    12 year warranty, good selling point for me also!

    The Cree amber LEDs are still working fine for the signals.
     
  17. Jeff_Barrett

    Jeff_Barrett Member

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    Just remember, that standard 7443's have one less filament support making them more susceptible to burning out from vibration.

    :)
     
  18. redwing750

    redwing750 New Member

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    Already switched to the Philips LEDs, they're the same physical size as a 7443 bulb.

    The big advantage is the LEDs are backfacing, so the reflectors get the full shot, and zero latency.

    Wish I had known about them before!
     
  19. storx

    storx New Member

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    Is this the same as doing the VFRness wire replacement? i just bought my VFR less than a week ago and still trying to learn about this.. i tested the bike yesterday and resting battery voltage on mine was 12v and only went to 13.55v after started... got the battery replaced today after taking it to battery plus near me and having the last owner call in and switch the warranty under my name from his at battery plus near him.. then i replaced the battery under warranty just now and brought it home.. i noticed the wire harness recall was performed on my bike after going through all of the receipts from the previous owner..
     
  20. Jeff_Barrett

    Jeff_Barrett Member

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    Got a link to the specific LED bulb you're using?

    Yes, it's pretty much what the VFRness does - but better IMHO since you're bypassing the standard connectors (they are still there in case you need to do a fast field replacement) which don't pass current well and tend to oxidize.

    To test your charging system properly, do the following:

    1. Get your battery load tested at a local automotive store. (12.0v is low - I see you took it in and replaced it. Good stuff!)
    2. If your battery is good, then charge it up and put it back in the bike.
    3. After charging, let the battery sit over night then check the voltage and record it (should be at least 12.8v)
    4. Start the bike, let it warm up. Once warmed up - hold the throttle steady at 5,000 RPM and test your voltage across the battery. You should end up between 14.3 and 14.8v on average. This isn't exact, and your readings may be slightly lower (like 14.1v) if you haven't beefed up your charging system wiring.

    There are other procedures to test the coils and RR but unnecessary unless you're showing voltages lower than indicated above, or having other issues with the battery and / or charging system.

    One other thing to check, is there's a single red wire that goes to your main fuse (sits next to the relay beside the battery). If it has a 14g wire instead of a 12g wire, this needs to be replaced with at least a 12g wire. It gets hot and the connector also gets hot and melts / shorts out ... it 'should' be ok if they did the wiring recall, but I'd check it anyway. If you're unsure, post a photo here of it for me and I'll let you know.
     
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