Eliminating Linked Brakes 6th gen

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by CaptGarvin, May 11, 2018.

  1. CaptGarvin

    CaptGarvin New Member

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    Just got the Galfer Braided lines and have decided to bypass linked system for now, but need to come up with way to include the left front middle piston to front lines, as well as block left front caliper movement(for secondary master cylinder), and tie two caliper fittings on rear to one line going to rear pedal. I’ve heard about replacing the front forks with those of other bikes but my intent is get this working and determine then if I like, if not then change back to linked. Can a double banjo be mounted at a caliper or is that a no-no, otherwise a 3 junction fitting for front and rear could do it near the caliper. 2002, had since new, like the “idiot” proof linked system but want separate brakes. Will keep up progress but not to first base yet, first is how to lock left front caliper.
     
  2. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    For the back brake I was able to leave the caliper alone, and join both standard lines together with a double banjo bolt at the master. Fits like Mr Honda designed it to be done that way!

    I put CBR600F4 forks on my 5G (with 6G triples and bars). That enabled me to use CBR600/954/SP2 calipers as a direct bolt-on. You could just get CBR600F4 fork lowers and use them with the 6G uppers/internals.

    I'd imagine that used 6G calipers should be cheap on eBay, the easiest way to join the centre and outer pistons would be to bore a hole between them (through the upper banjo fitting) and blank off the centre piston banjo with a suitable bolt.

    Just beware of hydraulic ratios, you will be activating approx 50% greater piston area with these mods, which means your master travel will be greater and the hydraulic force applied is also greater, so potentially softer/more lock-prone brakes. Moving to a larger diameter master can correct this.
     
  3. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    OK, so what, Honda design engineers fucked up VFR braking and you know better ?? seems both unwise and imprudent to me to change factory braking setup. you're track-racing MAYBE u need that but not on streets or roads ??????? Gimme numbers, no real advantage for de-linking except to say you did it.
     
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  4. FJ12rydertoo

    FJ12rydertoo Member

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    To me it makes sense if the braking of the VFR was not excellent, but it comes across as one of the
    best stopping bikes there is. Why mess with a good thing? Racing or several track days is a whole
    'nother story of course.

    Fiddling with stuff is cool, but fiddling with stuff that works very well, and is unlikely to actually work
    better due to the fiddling is kind of pointless.
     
  5. OZ VFR

    OZ VFR Insider

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    Lots of people will tell you to leave it alone, some more aggressively then others.
    Me; everyone to their own.
    It reminds me of a saying my mate used to tell, "if you're ever lost in the middle of nowhere and looks like you will die, start up a BBQ, some prick will promptly turn up and tell you you're doing it wrong".
    I liked the stock VFR brakes, I like my delinked VFR brakes a lot more and has given me much better suspension as a side effect (it's why I did in the first place).
    However, if you ride at a modest pace and not aggressively/fast, or just commute or tour its probably not worth going through the hassle.

    Using double banjos on the caliper is not a problem.
    Disconecting the secondary master cylinder line, then filling up with brake fluid and sealing the port with a bolt and copper washer will hydro lock it.
    Search up a few delink posts here and on VFRD to get an idea of what people have done, there are many of these mods for a reason.
    To use all pistons you will need different master cylinders for front and back, easy to do and cheap, but must be done.
    If you eventually go to different fork lowers and calipers, you will take off 1.5kg of unsprung dead weight from the front wheel, this will make the biggest difference to the front suspension.
    Feel free to ask questions, its why this forum exists.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
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  6. Bubba Utah

    Bubba Utah Insider

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    I didn't like the idea of linked braking when introduced on Hondas. That is why I never really looked at one in those years. If the system was so great why did the do away with it? Was it ABS and traction control that they decided on was the better way to go? But I have never ridden on a linked system. I have ridden for years but don't consider myself an "Advanced technical rider". I know that die hards or technical riders like the independence and ability of using what brake to use at the right amount of pressure. I know that the system was probably meant to lower accidents in newer riders.

    After 34 yrs I still find myself in panic situations of instinctually going to the rear and having to stop myself and letting off. I think this is a muscle memory learning process that those that ride more yearly and/or do track days a lot to get over. I am generally a solo rider and do not get the benefit of riding in groups and talking about the ride and what techniques are best. I think rider input and conversations help a lot of people as well as classes. But I only know how to ride and handle situations with a bike now and in the past that made me make the decision for better or worse. Luckily I have never been in a serious accident due to my skill level yet. I still need to get into an advanced or intermediate riding class to brush up. I just cant find one that will let me go helmet less, shirtless, sporting shorts and wearing sandals!:potstirrer1::Drum::Crutch::whipme:
     
  7. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    Brilliant, my new survival strategy!
     
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  8. mello dude

    mello dude Member

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    To each his own... I like separate brakes! I dont like front end dive when I push the rear brake lever.. Front only or rear only or together, its my decision.


    What its all about.
     
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  9. OZ VFR

    OZ VFR Insider

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    That's what I was looking for.
     
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  10. vVertigo

    vVertigo New Member

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    I’ve had my bike since new, almost 16 years, and with multiple trips to the Dragon yearly, learning from those who know how to ride like I like, and over time have gotten I guess what you would call semi-aggressive(some might say a wanna be), and I know this bike. This will be a careful expirement, but have gotten direct proof from another vfr delinked and want separate brakes. I’m gonna just link the two hose points on left to front to get all six pistons and just use the two pistons on rear, block off middle piston. Have fabed a bracket to lock upper left caliper. If i like it, will then think about the fork, etc swaps. Sounds like new master cylinder is in order. Thanks for the informative replies, and linked brakes have kept me and probably lots others from harms way here and there, but gotta step it up, wouldn’t have another bike.
    Tail of the Dragon
     
  11. vVertigo

    vVertigo New Member

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    Parts manual shows the middle piston on front left is different length than other two, I think it’s shorter(25x27 middle, 25x35 for outer two) this has hit pause on tie in with main line. May take caliper apart and see in the longer piston will fit middle, never know.
     
  12. OZ VFR

    OZ VFR Insider

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    The difference is diameter, not length.
     
  13. vVertigo

    vVertigo New Member

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    Dang it, was hoping other way around, if all were same diameter the pressure force behind each would be the same, but the smaller middle piston would be applying more force on the pad than the outer two what ever the pressure if I got my physics right.(or have I got it backward)Now I see why folks change the forks to get better calipers for delinking. For now will plug middle front left and rear middle piston to see how it feels. Everything will be reversible, but if it’s better for my needs, then consider the forks and caliper swap, and removing all link components. And looking at the parts manual you can clearly see it is the diameter that’s different for the middle piston and o-ring, didn’t look that closely last nite, thanks for that info. Just hope I don’t have to glue brake pads to the bottom of my shoes for emergency braking.
     
  14. vVertigo

    vVertigo New Member

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    Forget the brake pads on my shoes, found an Air Force surplus parachute off an old Phantom jet for those emergency stops(just hope it’s on a straight road)
     
  15. vVertigo

    vVertigo New Member

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    Need someone with hydraulic knowledge, linking the rear caliper like you say may be pushing with more exertion(wrong word) to the center piston since it is a smaller diameter, but with equal pressure behind all three pistons, will diameter matter? Same with left front, am I making sense?
     
  16. mello dude

    mello dude Member

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    Really old photos - but I havent touched this for years, or felt the need to... Rear brake setup, outer pistons to center piston bridge. 1 stock line to a 14mm master cylinder.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  17. vVertigo

    vVertigo New Member

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    That’s what I had in mind for front and back, but want to find out what forces, and how even they are with pistons of different size, rear and left front.
     
  18. mello dude

    mello dude Member

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    Not sure waht your question is, but say for a given pull/force on a lever, results thru the master cylinder a certain psi pressure, which in turn exerts the pressure on the area of the pistons. Then the pressure causes a force thru the all the pistons. So, finally ... 3 pistons... F1 +F2 + F3 = total.. force against the brake pad...

    Is that your question?

    Btw - great video!
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
  19. OZ VFR

    OZ VFR Insider

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    For the rear I internally drilled my caliper to use one line with the three pistons, easy to do but it is permanent. Over 30,000km without a problem.
    Some people reused both lines and attached both of them to the new master cylinder (I used a 2010 CBR250RR), probably the easiest thing to do.
    For the front you can just use two new braided lines from the original master, and ignore the middle pistons for the moment, it's what I did to see if I liked it.
    There is no problem with the different size pistons, it is how many calipers are designed.
    But to take full advantage of the delink, you really need new fork lowers to cut huge amounts of unsprung weight and use the best conventional calipers you can get.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
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  20. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    Ahhhhhh..... Linked brakes. Should be for bikes over 800 lbs and for people who are not use to using the front brake. lol
     
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