Gear 2.0

Yes, and smoking used to be cool and every movie/tv show we watched had someone smoking in it. So does that mean we should not consider the alternatives, that maybe, just maybe, there's a better, safer and smarter way?

I do agree with you here. But note your comments say "large part". Do you wear a helmet? If you do, I suspect that is because you believe it to be sensible. If not, well, enough said.

There is a recent post of a VFRWorld member that went down when a deer ran out in front of him. Similar to your truck theory, albeit no where near the same amount of mass, it came out of nowhere. I think most people that read that thread would have dreaded what the circumstances would have been like if our fellow mate went down without any gear. I don't know him other than through this forum, but I believe he has quite a bit of riding experience.

And at what point did anyone say "Pyro, don't ride a bike man. You can't ever ride without gear". No one ever said that. What the folks on this forum did was offer some suggestions and comments about potential ways to improve his safety. And after all, Pyro did as "what do you guys think about my gear".

Again, I agree with you. But it appears to me that more often than not, when a suggestion was made that Pyro improve his riding gear, you struck it down as if we were the "gear Nazi's", and encourage Pyro to damn the gear. I just don't see how that is helpful.

See my earlier post. I told Pyro to basically do what he wants. I merely offered suggestions. You, on the other hand, decided to say "be your own man, Pyro! You don't need gear if you don't want it".

My whole point is an "accident" can happen at any time. Is it all that bad try and prepare for this, and take a few precautions, and offer some suggestions to someone who is obviously concerned, but on a limited budget and looking for suggestions on "cool weather gear".

 

Easy Fellas

DKC: For some reason, I keep thinking of Plato's "Allegory of the Cave" when I read your comments on this thread. just thought I'd throw that out there...

As for the rest, guys, I totally understand and agree with a lot of the points made here. I agree that gear is a lifesaver, and that careful sensible riding can make all the difference. I appreciate the many differing views here, and have seen some good suggestions that I've taken into account as well.

That being said, DKC happens to be more smilar in thought to me :team2: I don't mean to upset anyone by agreeing with the majority of his points... But I can see where his "do whatever pleases you" attitude comes from. That is, after all, the essence of riding, right? Breaking through conformity, challenging the preconceived notion that things have to be this way or that way...

My gear is a reflection of who I am as a person and as a rider (I've never been one to go with the flow, as it were...), and happens to leave me feeling sufficiently protected as to merit goin' on a ride. It may not meet with the expectations of all who see it, but then it doesn't have to. As I said before, if my choices in gear keep one of ya from ridin' alongside me that's a bummer. But all in all I think my combination of comfortable gear and keeping my eyes open has done me well.

 

Just been busy ya'll. Still got some stories left to tell.

Pyro , I am glad that I took the time to go to the extreme. If I hadn't you might never have come out with that Plato crack. Tell you the truth, I would like nothing better than sitdown with you over a cold one and discuss the "Allegory of the Cave" with you and listen to how you think it bears on the argument that we are having here? I would like that a lot. I'll bring my copy of the Allegory and you bring your's. I'll try to make time to skim it just to refresh my memory. What I recall at this moment is that Plato sets up a scenario in which a group of beings, possibly mankind, are forced to live in a cave in what is basically darkness (ignorance?). From time to time care takers of some sort come in with fire (inspiration, intelligence?) that casts shadows of the figures on teh wall behind them. The beings in the cave are trapped in a manner that only allows them to see the shadows projected on the wall by the light of the torches that these "handlers" bring with them (time/history/civilization?). That is all they ever see of the world they live in. And the ideas that result from their personal interpretations of the shadows is the illusion that makes up their existence? Pretty heavy stuff. Pretty interesting set up. I would consider it an honor to hear what you have to say about it .Thanks for bringing it up, and thanks for having the guts to bring it up, most people run from that kind of discussion. Besides, I need to let my hair down in and unwrap my wadded up shorts. Name your time and place.

Sorry to have to break it off, but I have to answer Pliskin now. I have been having all kinds of fun using the electrolytic rust removal method on my '82 Vf750C today. By the way it works great, its cheap, and it's by far the best method I have ever used to get rid of rust. If you ever need to get tank rust out go to a web site named "antique-engine.com" or maybe it was "antique-motor.com". The old guy who created the site is great, gives you a great description of every thing thats important to know and he's not just clever but he's funny too.

So this is my first chance to respond. to Pliskin. I really don't want to get into a long thing here. I have my sights set on seeing the rust removal thing completed tomorrow. I have a car that I hit a deer with driving home from my nieces wedding in Arcata, up in the Red Wood forests along California's northern coast. (Redwood Highway about 40 miles south of Eureka.) Beautiful county. Be warned, the deer come out at dusk and roam around. sometimes on the highway. Wiped out a fender, headlight and hood on my Mazda (zoom bang). If I had been on the cycle I would have made it through because of the spacing of the deer. I couldn't squeeze past in the car and hit one looking in the wrong direction to be able to see me coming. The deer really was frozen in place. It flew off the left side of car ( one of those motorized beans). So like I advocated GET A :car:. I actually wanted to drive up on bikes with my son, but that's another long story.

Anyway, when I read your e-mail the first thought that entered my head was that you were an evangelist for the cause of getting everyone to wear protective gear. I've been around a number of evangelizing Preachers and I recall this one time after I had frustrated the "H" out of a couple of the common denominator "hell and damnation types" who were sure they were going to save my soul ("Well, don't you want to go to Heaven? Do you want to spend the rest of your afterlife in Hell?). So they sent in the gun slinger, the head man, Mr. Smooth. No bombbast or bluster. He had a nice suit on with perfectly matching shoes (penny loafers?) and socks. His tie was something of a glory to behold. Perfectly color coordinated silk of the latest width, pattern and length. He could have been a stand in for David Letterman if he had been older (Letterman is something of a clothes horse, if you have bothered to notice). He was Mr. Cool. No pushing, no raising of eyebrows no suppression of frustration and anger. He was going to convert me using my own weapon, logic. But you know, when you sat back and listened it always came back to "save your soul" by believing in "me". "I" have the truth and the way and "I" can save you if you will only listen to reason. "My" reason. And of course if I listened to his reason and agreed with him I would naturally want to attend his church and tithe along with his congregation. But he went to the trouble of telling me that the attending and tithing didn't matter as much as my believing in what he was selling. As long as I would say that I believed in what he was selling he would let me walk out a free man. If he couldn't convince me that "he" was the way then he was going to keep me there until the cows came home. All I had to do was lie and say that "I believed" in what was being sold in front of his seconds, and he would let me go. Otherwise he would never forgive himself for not having convinced me to believe in what he was selling, (the way to save my soul). And he implied that I might by my action of not believeing and not taking "his" Christ into my soul from him that evening that I might cause him to require hospitalization or possibly endanger his life. I lied and got out of there as fast as I could. And that was the night my soul was saved. You should have heard those men congratulating themselves as I walked out of there. It was a very big deal to them, seriously. They were serious about calling an ambulance and getting the EMT's to check out the head guy's heart. It was too weird for me.

And while I was having this memory while I read through all the smooth talk and specious arguments in the email , I had this connection with Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn. I don't know if you remember Tom Sawyer. He was a orphan who had been sent to live with a spinster aunt, I think it was Aunt Polly. And Aunt Polly was forever trying to get Tom to reform, to change his dead cat twirling and invoking the devil, and all sorts of tricks, that made poor Aunt Polly weep in despair that she would ever civilize Tom, if she wasn't after Tom with her switch to punish him for one more of his endless series of boys pranks. But the real corker was when she decided that she was going to reform that poor cast off of a no good drunken father, Tom's friend and confidant, Huck Finn. If Tom was incorrigible,well Huck was the epitome of a HARD CASE. She tried every trick the ladies aid society weekly meet and greet had sold her on. But nothing would stick,every thing she tried to civilize Huck automatically failed. She bought him shoes, he threw them off and refused to wear them, she bought him clothes, he tore them up and traded them away for the practicalities of a homeless boy. She dragged him to church, he didn't pay attention, she sent him to school , he was kicked out for insubordination. In the end, good soul that she was, she drove him to picking up and leaving, sending Huck on a passsage through the heart and soul of the pre civil war south . And here I would like to quote an author, if I could only remember who he was, who said something like "you can't take the boy out of a man". If you think about it, it's a pretty profound realization. But the world is filled with Aunt Pollies too, that are bound and determined that's just what they are going to do. Thank the lord that they fail as often as they do. There wouldn't be half the men left in this world if they did. goodnight

 

Yes, the world may have its share of Aunt Pollies, and sadly, its share of of people who refuse to even consider alternatives to a situation.

Signing off on this one...

 

I'd love to get together and discuss it :biggrin: there's a Denny's down the street from me, off the 60 at Valley Way... Know the place?

 

I know where Valley Way and the 60 are.

I'm sure I could find Denny's if I drove there. I could meet you for Breakfast if you want. However, let's make the time and day arrangements using PM's.

I want Pliskin and the rest of the advocates for plastic armor plate to know that I have no prejudice against those who wear it. My son wears it and he gives me a wry smile when he sees me get on the Magna V30 in shorts and a T shirt. I read in that smile that he's thinking what Pliskin is saying with a drop of the old "l told you so venom in it". I laugh at him for taking 10 to 15 minutes to change clothes every time he wants to take one of my bikes out for a spin. I have to admit that dressing up in playsuit to go out and play would just take too much spontaneous joy out of riding(playing) for me to get into it. He, on the other hand loves to put on his armor and join the gang. He has a much a right to wear a long sleeve black jacket and black pants in 100F weather as I have to wear shorts and a T shirt.

To date, by riding conservatively and in an upright, sober position ("cruiser ride' Yea!) that any Christian would agree is the position that God intended man to ride a motorcycle in. He has gone down twice and I have yet to have a spill? Could it be that the fact that my fear of scraping my kneecap off if I drive like a maniac through corners has saved me from prematurely going to hell. My son, young and impatient, threw in the towel on riding my 84 V30 with me on the 82 V45, up to the Arcata wedding. He went out and bought a slick 80's Ninja 250, with what I believe was a bribe from my ex, with low (5000) miles and promptly crashed it in a corner while on his way to the Arcata wedding by himself. He could have been severely cut up or at least received a nice war wound to remind him of his mortality when he was pulling his plastic pants up the next time he took a ride. But he managed to get away with little or no bleeding and his young body recouped from the beating it took from bouncing down the road for 50 ft or so. There was talk that he came near to falling off a cliff but I believe he or my younger brother embellished the story to impress the extended family gathered for the wedding.

I was pissed. I had made an object lesson of the high mortality rate on Ortega Highway to him when I lived in Lake Elsinore (yes, the same Lake Elsinore that the Honda dirt bike was named after and the same Elsinore that appears in teh movie "ON ANY SUNDAY"). But I think this proves my point. The kid engaged in reckless behavior as a result of donning his batman outfit and not the reverse. He was like a little kid who thinks he can jump off the garage roof if he has his Superman costume on (Me, at 6. I had a severe ankle sprain from trying to land on my feet like Superman does. Swoosh).

So let me modify my position. If you intend on using the public roads and highways for measuring your testosterone level while engaged in motorcycle riding then I advocate taking your Motorcycle licence away and making you drive on a racetrack where the whole idea of wareing a reinforced 'driving suit' came from in the first place. The public roads are not a place for racing, even against yourself, because it puts the lives of innocent bystanders on the line as a result of your behavior. There are venues where body armor, knee dragging, betting, face pointing, racing and exhaultation over being faster than the next guy are the order of the day. However, sanity precludes the necessity for body armor on public roads. After all, the reason we built them, paved them , signed and electified them in the first place was to lower the risk of hitting someone or being hit by someone. Have conditions on the public highways gotten so bad that we have to pave over our flesh before riding a motorcycle? We have forgotten these facts and see driving as a test of wills rather than a convieniece provided by the common wheal and financed by the cooperative agreement to pay taxes to build and maintain them. That is not to say that you can't ride in a racing suit (lets call it what it really is) any darn place you want to if you can afford it and that's your hearts desire, just as long as you don't run anybody down or destroy anybody elses property because you think the suit makes you invunerable. However, if you, and the minority crowd of crotch rocket maniacs, needlessly engage in reckless behavior and are maimed or die as a result of it is still not an argument for forcing the rest of the motorcycle world to wear plastic clothing with fiberglass padding. It's a choice not a "alternative" to be forced down anyones throat.

It's getting cooler in Riverside and I am going to have to start wearing a jacket and long pants when I ride (thanks be). I have no prejudice against riding with a reinforced concrete wall hung on my shoulders if it keeps me warm, dry and comfortable. And as a result of this long argument I will entertain to purchase a reasonable facsimile of a "mesh jacket" and "mesh pants" if my financial position permits. So the next time you see me coming I might be wearing plastic. If you are friendly I might tell you how and where I bought them for 20 cents on the dollar, but don't ask if they zip together, some things are too personal to divuldge.

 

To quote DKC:

“The kid engaged in reckless behavior as a result of donning his batman outfit and not the reverse. He was like a little kid who thinks he can jump off the garage roof if he has his Superman costume on”

I pray you are speaking about your son’s mentality about riding gear and not the rest of us here on VFRW.

I’ve heard this idiotic argument about someone who wears ‘full gear’ and it somehow translates to being ‘invincible’. Maybe in personal cases, like you son’s DKC, there is some truth to the statement. But Bubba Zanetti did a little survey with his fellow scags and I cannot find any hint of truth to this statement. Instead I get weird looks and laughter mixed with statements like: “Who the hell said that to you Dan”?

I, and I’m sure I speak for many others, we wear ATGATT because of the injury that can result from an accident. I do not wear it for a false sense of security or safety, which oddly is the logic you utilize in the justification of not wearing gear.

DKC, just because you have tempered your riding and do not climb high up on the ladder of risk doesn’t mean you are safe. The statistics have been the same for 25 years:

50% of the time a motorcyclist is taken out at an intersection, the driver turns left in front of the MC

40-45% of the time the motorcyclist fails to negotiate a turn (alcohol is major factor in 2/3 rds these accidents).

And the rest of the 100% is rear-endings, deer, etc. (These stats can vary State to State, but only a little).

OK, so you don’t drink and ride, you can corner a bike pretty well, you ride on roads with no intersections so your risk is low. However, let’s revisit ‘deer’. RVFR wasn’t blazing down the road when Bambi stepped out. He was out having a nice little ride when that accident happened. RVFR wasn’t wearing gear to be invincible that day. He was wearing gear just in case something unforeseen like that happened when he went for a ride.

In closing, you son’s issue is not that he suits up, but he lacks maturity when it comes to riding. Something at your age you obviously have or can display to us. But your son didn’t crash because he was wearing gear. He crashed because of multiple factors, of which I can only speculate, but the list can be ‘in too hot’ ‘target fixation’ ‘grabbed a handful of front brake to slow down’ ‘slow steering input’ ‘ maybe hit a patch of coolant’ ‘didn’t look through the turn’, etc.

The one single thing that make a rider a great rider is not their bike, gear, race, color, age or religion. It’s how they use their brain when they ride.

DKC, you really do seem like a smart guy. Please do not bring that lame ass ABATE logic to the table. It is very unbecoming.

BZ

 

Thanks, Bubba! I was getting ready to invoke that wonderful line from Woody Allen's "Annie Hall" film:

"...sorry, I am wanted back on planet Earth..."

 

"When in doubt just follow the money."

Deep Throat.

I mean, in the end to be a motorcycleist what you need is very simple. You need access to a motorcycle, preferably one that runs, a licence to ride, the licence fee, and the mandatory liability insurance. There you go, even if you ride nude you are by virtue of the fact that you rode a motorcycle become a motorcycleist. Now there is a large organization trying to convince you that you are not in fact what you in fact are. The argument is that you aren't a motorcyclist until you pass certain milestones that only they are permited to judge your worthiness on based on the fact that they are 'UBER' you. If you are gullible enough to accept that their self assumed presedence gives them the right to judge your fitness, then you are automatically allowed into their exclusive club for flegling motorcyclists. To prove your worthiness to be a member in good standing and have achived the rank of fledging you have to "follow" and agree with the code they have set up for becoming a full fledged motorcyclist.


I 'm sorry to be so cynical. VFRW is a great web sight for getting insights into Vf cycle problems and tips on how to repair Vf bikes. It is a wonderful resource and has been a great help to me with regards to making repairs to my bikes by myself. Even as I write this the gas tank on my old Magna is being cleaned by a method that I learned about from Uberchuckie when I inquired about the best method of removing tank rust in the 1st and 2nd Gen forum.

That said, and I could recall other examples where I got essential information from VFRW, it is obvious that setting up, keeping and running a web site like this one from day to day requires some human intervention. Those humans who run the site have to be paid a reasonable wage for the work they do ( and what may be an unreasonable wage in the eyes of some). While VFRW and so many other sites offer their information and interpersonal relations services "por nada" to the rest of us slobs out here in Cyberland, The reality is that VFR is in the business of making money to pay its employees and the shareholders in the companies that "own" the "CAPITAL" that generates the product called VFRWorld for consumption by a group of freeloaders called the "members". Now that aint right. Even from a Christian/leftist Christian/quasi communist "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs" point of view that aint right. Even Jesus came right out and said that a worker deserves to be paid for his labor. I don't want to get into the nitty gritty of what he said about usury or any of the higher finance issues that have been so much in the news as of late. But if the internet was actually free there would be a lot of IT types who would have to be slaves. And even slaves have to be fed and housed and clothed. So whats really going on here is a bit of subtrafuge which is at the base of the arguments and retorts that are being bandied about in the context of ATGATT or whatever you call it. Regardless of what you call it I call it by its real name "advertizing", or better yet I call it by a more definitive descriptor "selling". VFRW is in the business of selling jackets, pants,boots, helmets, gloves, water repellant ballistic mesh dildos for your mind, motorcycle parts, seats, grips, windsheilds, leather stuff, what the hell, the whole gamet of trash related to accessories for motorcycles and motorcycle riders. Make no bones about it somebody is paying through the nose to make it possible for the VFRWORLD to exist. Those people are you bunkie, and they are me too, because even as jadded and cynical as I am I still buy things that they offer for sale and I come on the page to see if I can find it cheaper or better or both by putting my wallet in danger every time I climb aboard this dreamscape of motivational selling. "Look at what I got that he ain't got." Good old fashioned basic down and dirty pride and envy everywhere you look.

Personally I don't know and I don't care to know what the whole Peer pressure system they have wired together here is exactly about but it has something to do with the rediculous "UBER MENCH" grading of the membership. It appears that the prime sellers are the role model types with the color coordinated full race leather outfits, the bright shiny late model VFR's and the big grins on their faces as you lift your wallet out of your pocket and hand them all the cash that you have to blow on the promise that you too can have a big grin like theirs if you will only believe in them and their religion, " the winner is the one who has the most stuff whether they can afford it or not." Of course that makes you a bankrupt when the bill comes due. But we don't like to talk about downers like that, its bad for business. WE don't like people telling potential customers to hold on to their money, consider a used item or make up your own subsitute. Bad for business. And business is what its all about, not motorcycles, but the geegaw trash that can be sold because it can be associated with motorcycles.

I mean in the end to be a motorcycleist what you need is very simple. You need a motorcycle, preferably one that runs, a licence to ride, the licence fee, and the mandatory liability insurance. There you go, even if you ride nude you are by virtue of the fact that you rode a motorcycle you are a motorcycleist. Now there is a large organization trying to convince you that you are not in fact what you in fact are. The argument is that you aren't a motorcyclist until you pass certain milestones that only they are permited to judge your worthiness on based on the fact that they are 'UBER' you. If you are gullible enough to accept that their self assumed presedence gives them the right to judge your fitness then you are automatically allowed into their exclusive club for flegling motorcyclists. To prove your worthiness to be a member in good standing and have achived the rank of fledging you have to "follow" and agree with the code they have set up for becoming a full fledged motorcyclist. That code seems to include the ATGATT thing. And you know how codes are. Naughty naughty if you or anyone else tries to break them. So the iconoclasts, loners, individualists, thinkers nonconformists and well you know who you are, the troublemakers, the huck Finns of this world, the wild ones, the "real" motorcylists, are bound to get the third degree when they express a contrarian view.

Its so funny its scarry. But it happens over and over and over and over. Its deeply rooted in human behavior. Its related to the fact that we are born babies and have to be taught to survive. Some teachers are loving and caring, others are just out for themselves, they are often called Sales Men. You have to learn to keep your guard up when you go to sales men for information. They are morally blind. They will sell you into bondage and it will somehow have been for your own good, at least to their way of seeing the world.

Is this what Plato was getting at Pyro? I mean about the idea that we haven't really got a clue. We live in complete ignorance and all we can do is guess about the meaning of those shadows dancing on the wall? The sales men want to be the handlers holding the torches. In fact they are Blind. They don't see the shadows on the wall. They are completly consumed by making money. Its been said that what they are selling is themselves and all that they are are illusions. Follow the money, that is all yee know and all yee need to know.

We men persist in the delusion that we are different from those stupid women who spend all day in the mall shopping idling away their lives on their consumer life style. But get the mirror out and look at what going on here and if you don't think you are getting suckered by the phonie retail men and their team of fad makers and fad breakers you are dillusional. The best sales gimmic in the world is the one that tells you you need to have it or you will die. Who can resist? Who wants to die?

 

DKC:

There are three items that should be covered with regards to this discussion.

First, you make some points in your diatribes that have much merit with regards to society at large. But they have little to do with Pyro’s original query, or in fact, what has been predominantly discussed in this thread. I was waiting for you to try and draw parallels to the Kennedy Assination and people who wear ATGATT. Remember, context is important in dialogue.

Two, you are a slave to the very same logic you are trying to dispel.

Third, yes, the “Allegory of the Cave” is about (in your words) “the ideas that result from their personal interpretations of the shadows is the illusion that makes up their existence” But that is an ancillary and evident observation much like your points about individuality in motorcycling, what defines a motorcyclist and our insatiable thirst for goods and image in a consumer driven society. If you are to school PyroMcNoob in this story then the true point of the story must be revealed. The ‘Allegory’ is about what ultimately happens to someone when ‘absolute truth’ is revealed to them and the consequences of trying to reveal said truth to those who are ignorant of it.

Peace,

BZ

 

I got a headache

 

Can we please talk about what kind of oil is best?
Or at the very least, who likes Maryann and who likes Ginger?

 

I have met the enemy and he is me.

Great answer Bubba. You da man. Thanks for letting me get to know ya. Its been a few years since I read The Republic. But its slowly coming back to me. Something about a truely superior man being able to see truth behind or in the shadows and so he climes out of the cave and sees the reality (truth) in the light of the sun and then he turns around and returns to the cave and his fellow captives or he goes to the light and comes back and tells them the truth and not one of them can them can accept it, they prefer to remain ignorant and in the cave. "IGORNANCE IS BLISS". The plot line of hundreds of science fiction stories (Outer limits and Twilight Zone, etc.)

While we are on this side track that coulda, woulda, shoulda been a main track, I'd like to do a little sales job of my own for a book I recently read through in about 5 days. It's not a thick book but it is more than periferally about motorcycles. It uses the repair of a Honda Vf 750 or 1100 engine as part of the text. There is a nice pencil sketch of the clutch rod seal that is such a bear to replace on these motorcycles. It's title is Shop Class as Soul Craft by a guy who got his Phd in Philosophy from U of Chicago. I only remember his first name was Matt. I don't know what kind of connections you have and I would not be surprised if you have already heard about it/read it/ may be the VFRW got a copy. Maybe VFRW needs a book review forum? I sat in Borders for 5 afternoons and read it to avoid paying $30 bucks for it in the first ed. hardback. But I'm considering buying it before it goes out of print just for the footnotes alone. The book is essentially about the philosophy of work and education but the author uses his own experiences as a motorcycle mechanic to draw or illustrate his arguments. I think Plato is mentioned at least once. Pyro take note. Its worth the time spent reading it. It's rather flattering to mechanics. An encomium to those capable of using both their hands and brain at the same time, as well as walk and chew gum. Maybe you would like to meet us for breakfast? We promise not to snicker if you come fully dressed.

 

Kind of an "American Gladiator" look.

It's a free country and riders can wear what they like, but since you asked I'll say that your gear leaves too much bare skin exposed to road rash and very little armor protection. I fell off once wearing jeans. Not pretty.

But, hey, it's your ass, not mine.

 

Talk about being needlessly verbose and argumentative. It's simple: the more gear you wear, the better you're protected. Of course, if one decides to ride without gear, one assumes more risk. I've crashed before, and if I had not been wearing a helmet, I'd either be dead or a vegetable. The helmet was thrashed. A textile jacket with "armor" protected me from certain road rash, as did my gloves. My jeans got torn up and my knees bloodied, so now I wear textile riding pants with "armor" to reduce the likelihood of repeating that if I crash again. I put quotation marks around armor because it's really only some kind of foam padding.

I don't understand what you're trying to argue. Maybe you sincerely think Pyro's gear is adequate, but why chide others who think it's not? Accusing us of being worried about image while you're citing "Easy Rider" and all that freedom BS, seems hypocritical.

No one is trying to convince Pyro to wear brand name couture, only the gear necessary to reduce the damage if a crash were to occur. From the pics, Pyro's gear appears inadequate, so the members of this forum are simply answering his question.

Also, no need to invoke Plato and the "Allegory of the Cave" in a discussion about riding gear.

By the way, I don't think the people running this site make any money (it's volutary), so that argument is bunk. Everyone here loves their viffers and they love riding, so when someone asks a question, for the most part, you'll get a sincere response.

But what do I know?

 

Perhaps some of us have just a teeny tiny chip on our shoulder about being told what to do, could be from all the non-riders we know that feel it necessary to give us their opinions on how dangerous and crazy we are for riding in the first place. After a lifetime of that, some of us are ready to unload with the big guns when we run up against any semblance of it within what we view as "our" motorcycling world, forums included.

Pyro seems to have his head on straight, I'm sure he'll figure it out.

I also am hard pressed to make the connection between lowly VFRW and the huge corporate conspiracy to get us to wear gear, c'mon now, maybe its a conspiracy to get us to buy a new bike too, those bastards. Heeheeee.....yeah, there's a fair amount of judging goes on here, happens with everything, you arent fast, your bike isnt modded cool enough, you dont wear the right stuff, blablabla. There are some that would say if you cant afford the gear, you shouldnt be in the sport.

Ok........ummmm.......dont think that is gonna happen. I dont blame people for trying to get others to wear protective gear, its out there, its not all that expensive, and its works pretty well unless you just Tbone a tree or car or get cut in half by a ........well you know what I mean.

Pyro, I have some leather pants (Teknic) that I found used , some guy got too fat to wear them like a month after he bought them, and a Joe Rocket jacket and some good gloves and a new helmet and some A* boots. I spaced all these purchases out over about a six month period, and the pants were really good deal. If youre diligent and patient, you should be able to get what you need for good prices.

I have about a thousand bucks tied up in this shit now, if that helps.

Oh, and I bought the helmet even though I had a perfectly good one already, like every other hobby in life, new shit is fun to buy.

 

Another important factor that I feel hasn't been mentioned much is the effect you have on others if you do crash.

As an example, my father was stopped at an intersection several years ago when an man on a cruiser of some sort rear-ended him. The accident happened because the rider chose to stare/wave at some ladies on the other side of the street and as a result was paying little attention to where he was going and the fact that traffic in front of him had come to a stop.

There was absolutely nothing my dad could have done to prevent the rider from colliding with the back of his car. But, as a result of the accident the rider bled out on the pavement and died. He died because he chose to wear what I venomously refer to as a "salad bowl" helmet. My father was in no way at fault yet had to bear the immediate (and resulting) trauma of being a part of that accident. The CHP officer and several others involved in the event deduced that had the rider been wearing a full helmet he would have more than likely survived the crash (the speed of impact was not that great but his lack of proper protection left him with fatal injuries.)

While some may lay claim that it's our bodies and we can do what we want with them, that's true, and I don't argue otherwise. I have no interest in telling you what to do with yourself, and you are, indeed free to wear just about anything you want while you ride. But once you step out onto a public roadway, you have the potential to affect everyone else out there.

Not to mention the obvious strain placed on the health-care system through increased injury that could have been prevented.

Again, that being said, it's entirely your choice how you choose to ride, but please do take into account other people, it's just the polite thing to do

Just my $1.50

Keep riding, and as they say, keep the rubber-side down! :thumbsup:

 

Striking the right note

I want to point to what vfourbear has written and refer you back to what I first wrote. Vfour has listed the gear that he has purchased over 6 months by diligently shopping for used and cast off gear. That is what I advocated in the beginning. What I am against is a full court press to dun someone into spending more than they want to or should because the crowd is in a clamor that he must not ride. Another contributor was right on the money when he said that there is a group out in cyberland who hold the position that if you can't afford the equipment then you shouldn't be allowed to ride. He and we know that it just is not going to happen. But, its like the political situation we have in this country. A vocal minority can make so much stink over nonsense that they can jam up the passage of some reasonable health care reform to the benefit of an even smaller minority with deep pockets and financial interests in keeping things as they are. The same could be true if the manufactures of gortex (sp?) and its immitators wish to make everyone buy their clothing. They could make so much noise about saving the hides of each and every motorcyclist in the country that riding with suits on would be forced down everybodies throat. Don't laugh it has happened with lesser things.

This is the first time I have ever ventured into the "Gear and Accessories" forum. I came her to see if I could find a reasonable place or guy to repair a leather jacket I bought at a swap meet with holes in the right arm. I was just nosing around when I stumbled into what seemed like an unfair and uneven onset of peer pressure to press Pryo into making a purchase right away. I just told Pryo to do it if he could afford it and to withstand the peer pressure and buy when it was afforadable. And I suggested he look on craigs list for used gear. Then the same group of advocates came after me.

Personally I abhore the kind of discussions that go on in forums like this one because they seem effeminate to me. (He's a Lumberjack and he's OK, etc.). I ride a bike for the simple reason that it's cheap on gas. It's not a fashion or lifestyle issue with me. It's a financial survival issue to me. Today I drove a 16mile round trip in my helmet , shorts, long sleeve cotton shirt and DC court shoes. I took advantage of the fact that I could squirrel to the front at stop lights to ride out front of the pack of cars and trucks. They knew the drill and everybody got along. I used the torque/horse power to weight advantage to power away from them but I did not break any speed limits beyond what is usual and acceptable. I had a pleasurable ride to my local Ecology Auto wrecker yard to check out what was available for tomorrows half price pick your parts sale. Then I got back on the bike and drove home. It was hot but I was comfortable at speed dressed as I was. I was comfortable while walking around the junk yard with my helmet stashed in my backpack and my baseball cap shielding my eyes from the sun's intense glare. I parked the bike in the only shady spot and spent a half hour or so looking for a good deal to replace the hood of my deer damaged car. But if I had ridden out to Ecology Auto in my gortex suit and boots and gloves I would have been uncomfortable to say the least. If I did not carry a second set of clothes I would have been drenched in sweat 1/3 the way through walking the lines of wrecked and abandoned cars. If I had a second set of clothes with me I would have had to change in a stinking porta potty and have had to haul the gear up and down the rows in my back pack along with the helmet. Then, after scanning the junk yard I'd have to dress again for the ride home. Isn't that adding a little too much complication to a simple thing like a trip to an outdoor venue in the desert in So. Cal?

On the way back I was surprised by a Full Dress BMW rider on a K series. He was fully accessorized . I was sitting at the light in neutral and he rolled up through the traffic behind me and just cruised as he had timed the light turning green perfectly. If a jerk in a car turning left on the right hand cross road had decided to rush a yellow light turning red, the BMW would have been creamed. I put it in gear and took off in an attempt to see this display of Tutonic efficiency on two wheels. He did back off at slightly above the speed limit. I soon caught and even over took him just as he turned left to hit the traffic jam on the freeway going east. I thought, "What a rude bastard riding with his nose in the sky in his fancy black suit with the reflective strips across the chest and back. No! Wait a minute, he has to be sweating like a pig in that dog suit. I bet he wishes that the 60-215 exchange wasn't jammed so he could open it up and get some air in under his armpits. He is going to need a shower after he takes that suit off. I wonder if the clothes under the suit are soaked with sweat too. I bet his cleaning bill is about what I spend on gas a week." And, as has happened on so many occasions in my motorcycling life I arrived home safely and was able to write this entry instead of running to the shower immediately upon getting home.

Why do some of you think it's necessary to put the fear of death into me for doing what I have described?

I

 

^^^^^^^^^

To quote one of my favorite bands, The Dead Kennedy’s

“Give me convenience or give me death”.

BZ

 

HAahaaahaaaaahaaaa