PC II vs PC III USB

Do you ever not shill for whatever it is you sell? If someone asked a question about center stands, would your answer be "Buy a Rapid Bike module?"

Q: "What's your fave route through the Colorado Rockies?"
CandyRedRC46: "A Rapid Bike Module."

Q: "Hey, how're you guys doin' today?"
CandyRedRC46: "Buy a Rapid Bike module."

 

$695 =/= $850 fuel/ignition
$525 =/= $850 fuel only

 

Do you ever have a clue what you're talking about? I am an electrical utility engineer. I have not ever and probably will never work for dimsport/rapid bike. I put together a group buy 3 years ago, because I wanted one and I know a lot about it, that is the extent of it. I do not work for them or get kick backs etc from them. The original post stated that he was looking for a more modern way to tune fuel and ignition mapping. That is literally a Rapid Bike Racing module. Why would I not recommend Rapid bike?

 

See, I wasn't so far off

 

Is this your sig?:

SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Rapid Bike Racing
Cycle Pro
Orlando Florida
(407) 277-5557
INFO@RAPIDBIKE.US
http://www.rapidbike.us/

Is that shilling?

Do you recommend it to anyone and everyone?

Hugely boring.

 

Yes that is my signature. I made it for the group buy and see no reason to take it down. I still think my recommendation was relevant to to the original post, but had I known he wasn't capable of installing a power commander on his own, had a $300 budget and ksoholm was going to bitch about it this much, I wouldn't have bothered. On second thought, I could just step it up a notch as it seems to really get under his skin.

As far as making power/fuel/efficiency and all that jazz, no fuel/ignition tuning alone will make big peak hp gains, as the factory mapping is fine up top, but there is plenty of room for improvement in the 3000-8000 rpm range, where Honda leaned the mapping out and pulled timing off to make for a more emissions compliant bike. Adding fuel, obviously will not help mpg's, but advancing the ignition timing can, as you will make more power, with less rpms.

 

Ehm, hello there. I'm not willing to feed this fire, but i'm curious about those things you were all talking about.
First things first: i'm poor. I mean: i wish i could spend 300$ on a pc3 but i cant, and no to mention rapid bike.
The first thing on my list are headers, propper stainless ones looking for durability more than performance or looks, and as i have a 5.5 th version as mentioned before, i'm willing to keep the lambda sensors for fuel efficiency purposes.
I've got to ask one technical thing: did anybody hook a lambda display to confirm that on the 5.5th gen the closed loop function starts at 3000rpm? Because i've noticed that the bike goes fine from 2000 up to 3000 but then kicks in like a smoother map or the closed loop mode or something that i would like to start before those 3000 rpm, again for smoothness purposes.
Last week i've noticed a major improvement on my bike just adjusting starter valves... This adjustment not only improved lower range rpms but even at high rpms the small openings of throttle are smoother and i can regulate throttle better.
I would like to openly ask: did anybody tryed to open up the original keihin ecu and read the eeprom? I would love go hear about that and get on to serious reflashing on the 5th gen. I understand that this is a destructive way to get into it as all the epoxy must be removed, but i would love to hear other minds willing to do this and reverse-engineer that ecu to see if we can improve it.
Those intermediate ecu like power commander and rapid bike are intended to modify the original keihin ecu, but i'm sure there is room for improvement and not neccesarily at a great cost...
Maybe some day i'll buy a spare ecu to test this.

 

1) Steer clear of the mod-squad; accept that Honda's engineers delivered a motorcycle that ran perfectly stock, to the point where there was no critique of runability from any period US magazine. I have the reviews.

2) Get a shop manual.

3) Ensure your bike is in top tune; don't futz with any of the silly mods, like snorkels, removing PAIR system, flapper valve, etc. Very cheap: Oil, a few parts, and your labor.

4) Ride the hell out of it. If not fast enough (it is to me), buy a faster bike. Sky's the limit. 122 MPH stock 1/4 miles is enough for me; a bike's speed has little to do with how good they are to ride.

5) Throttle response is slightly snatchy at sub-3K RPM; easy to live with. Get over it.

6) Enjoy the loads of money saved, and the disappearance of your motoanxiety.

 

FWIW, probably not much. But being one that tinkers with Toyota's, I had the stock ecu in the MR2 re flashed and it worked wonders. So being it's a Honda and Japanese, figured by now there would be someone re-flashing as it's called with the ecu. Ha, it's not done by anyone I could find, so ended up going with a PC3. But then I have a 5.0 gen.

 

It's a shame we all aren't fast guys and show more appreciation for all the software speed goodies oot there. From all this, I have to conclude me mach 1 91 is a POS. I suppose now I will have to start dragging for pink slips with the Rukus and scooter crowd.

 

I must confess i was a read it/try it guy about all that mods, but inmediatly got back to stock sooner or later, i mean, yes, i surrended many times to honda engineers or engineers of any kind before, but i'm sure that there is always room for improvement and cant help with that tinkering and "hack-it while you can" kind of mind.
I've got multiple digital copys of the service manual, none physical though. But that chapters about fuel injection and so seems like written by a sales man more than a technician...
Megasquirt or something similar are my other alternative if the eeprom reading turns bad.
Sorry, i can't help thinking about it

 

Ignorance sure is bliss... Isn't it?

 

It seems you are wanting to have your cake and eat it too... Modding the bike for cheap, but not really modding it, at the same time.
The 2006 and up ECU is flashable, but has not caught on, due to the fact that power commander/rapid bike are around and also due to the fact that there are no restrictions or limiters built into the ecu.

The only thing that needs/can be improved with the ecu is optimize the fuel and ignition mapping, but this mapping on the fifth gen, doesn't leave much to be improved upon (unlike the 6th gen). You can optimize the fuel tables for an AFR closer to 13.2:1, but there goes your fuel economy (read, cake and eat it too) and the fifth gens are not very tolerant of added ignition timing, only taking 1-3 degrees of added advance, mostly at low revs and throttle, where the sixth gens will take up to 5 degrees at large throttle openings through the entire low to midrange rpms.

Someone did post an aftermarket stand alone/tuneable ecu a few weeks ago, made for older hondas such as early cbrs and fifth gen vfrs etc..., but it was neither cheap nor easy to use. Read, cake and eat it too... I will see if I can find the post in a little bit.

It seems like you are on track for what you are really after, by syncronizing your starter valves and general tune up. Being that fuel economy ranks high on your list ditching the o2 sensors and therefor map tuning in general is pretty much out of the question. The factory throttle response is kind of snatchy/surgy, but maybe a good tune up, you can live with it, for fuel efficiency's sake.

So I would stick to general maintenance, such as replacing your fuel and air filters, having your injectors ultrasonic cleaned and serviced/inspected, replacing your spark plugs, maybe a valve insp/adj if your wallet and/or skill allows and finally look into replacing your factory o2 sensors with new oem o2 sensors, sense ditching them doesn't make much sense for you.

 

Always.
Maintennance is the other part of having a bike. I've got to get on clutch plates and springs, and valve shims soon, but hey, i've done oils, forks, coolant, steering bearings, front tire bearings, rear front and clutch master cylinder rebuild kits, brake fluids, sproket and chain, all body paint from broken blue to great red, regulator (fh012ab) and stator, voltmeter, instrument cluster repair (corroded wires), all bolts replaced with stainless bolts, sparkplugs, PAIR valve unlock (clogged by dirt).... But yes, maintenance is important as hell... But so it is using the bike, and you can't make both at the same time.

 

Sounds like you are on track. If you haven't made up your mind on the clutch yet, oem plates and barnett springs are a great combo.

 

Shilly, please point out specifics; name me one professional 5th Gen review wherein poor fueling/throttle response was mentioned. Just one. If not, stop pestering everyone with your fanboy nonsense. Then, ponder for a long while why Honda tunes their bikes as they do. A light should come on. Eventually.

For further kicks, do a search for "rapid bike" under your name. Another bulb should light up.

 

Could you get to that post? I'm curious.

 

For the money the PC 3 works just fine on a 5th gen. I'd like a ignition part that I could fool around with, but the fact is the 5th doesn't really want more advance except maybe in one small window of the RPM range, and it's another $300+, has me I'll put the money in cleaned up injectors. Though I'm SMH at his quirks getting it installed physically, yea its a small PITA, still.

 

Out of curiosity, were emissions even an issue back in 1998? My '98 doesn't even have a catalytic converter.