stage 3 air box mods

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by CandyRedRC46, Dec 16, 2012.

  1. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    I've done everything to the engine that we've talked about already......:redface:

    I can tell you that for low end torque the 2 valves are better than 4. It has to do with swirling the incoming mixture v. a 4 valve head tumbling the mixture into the combustion chamber,i.e. the combustion efficiency is enhanced.....4 valve heads are less responsive than 2 valve heads at low to mid rpm's. A two valve head will out accelerate a 4 valve head in the midrange.....The 4 valve heads advantage is in sheer volume of flow, plus 4 valve heads valves are lighter and have less mass than the valves of 2 valve heads.....this also helps at higher rpm....

    The VTEC engine is quite ingenious.....I don't have to wonder why such systems have been outlawed in MotoGP for years..........
     
  2. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    What if one were to leave the non vtec lobes alone, and make massive vtec lobes. Would that be benificial? Maybe it would promote a swirl affect at low rpms and high rpms as well?
     
  3. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    I'm not sure what you mean by VTEC valves...they are all VTEC valves......the cam profiles have to be designed with the engine package you are going to be using them with...just putting monster lobes on a camshaft is gonna be worse than putting a useless exhaust header on there because it's fooking 2mm bigger in diameter....your questions lead me to believe that you are looking for a mechanical arc of the covenent........I have searched, many, many years, i'll save you the time and tell you it doesn't exist. All of this stage one, stage two, stage three stuff is complete bullshit...but it sells.
     
  4. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    woah woah easy tiger... youre the one that wanted to talk about vtec. lol
    i thought one intake valve was a nonvtec and one was a vtec valve and that they had their own seperate cam lobes/profiles, and the same for the exhaust valves...
    i was just wondering if one valve open and one closed promotes a swirl and is a good thing,
    then maybe one open and one open even further(higher lift/longer duration) might do kinda the same thing, but higher up in the rpm range, you know?
    i wasnt expecting arc covenant power levels, just curious, maybe it would be more efficient, or make more power than having both valves opening further/longer.
    sorry if that was an absurd or stupid thought lol
     
  5. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    I wasn't getting irritated, sorry you took it that way, it certainly wasn't my intention. I was just trying to provide some ideas in the hope that you wouldn't waste your mony, time and effort should you actually go down the path of modifying your boiler. I wish you nothing but the best of luck, no matter which way you end up going about it. Glad to see you're still at it and I look forward to checking in periodically and seeig some new threads from your build.
     
  6. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    Okay I appreciate the help bro. Just trying to pick at your brain as much as I can lol.
    Nothing big is going to happen anytime soon. I just don't have the time/funds while I am in school.
    But I am trying to organize and plan out my future mod list and plan of attack.
    This thread just seems like a good way of doing it.
    Picking at a bunch of intelligent like minded peoples brains, on what works and what doesn't.
    Right now I have my hands full with my rr and stator.
    But next on my list after spring classes are paid for and I catch back up is a rapid bike 2.
    I already sent them my pc3 map, so hopefully they're working on converting that over for me, for a decent base map.
    Then I'm going to have to pull my exhaust off and clean up all the header wrap mess, get new gaskets and clamps, then ceramic coat everything and put it all back together.
    Once all that's said and done ill need to do some financial recovering again and then I'll get a real dyno tune done.

    I really want to do some big stuff. But everything else that we've talked about seems like it requires pulling the motor and doing it all at once (head milling, porting/polishing, regrinding/degreeing the cams, coating everything).


    That stuff just doesn't seem feasible while the bike is my daily driver. I'm having a hard enough time keeping up with maintenance as is.(tires, chains, rr's, stators, batteries, tires, cam chain tensioners. I'm about to hit 40,000 miles, and dont even want to think about valve inspections/adjustments right now). Plus all these electrical problems are killing me. So I won't be able to get to that stuff for a long time, but I would, like to know exactly what it is that I want to do, when I am at that point.

    But I have made what I consider some big strides recently. I finally swaped out my cam chain tensioners and the engine no longer sounds like its falling apart. Also the quick shifter is dialed in pretty good and is amazing. Also I've finally got my hands on what I consider a satisfactory air filter and set of velocity stacks. :)
    Baby steps lol.
     
  7. Mohawk

    Mohawk New Member

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    Norcalboy, do you have a dyno chart for your engine with all upgrades you made ?

    I've been looking for tuning info for these engines & found very little other than a lot of chat. The BioBlade & yours seem to be the only real attempts I've seen to get power out of these, but I had not come across yours before this thread !!!

    So I've been ploughing my own furrough so far. Thanks for any info.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
  8. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    so what about boring these things out a little? i do know that the vfr's have frm sleeves, so you would need to bore through those and a little further, and then install slightly larger sleeves probably made of iron. we have a 72mm bore, the 929s are 74mm, and the 954s are 75mm. so you figure we would only have to remove a mm of material to run 929 pistons, and 1.5mm to run 954 pistons. we would go from 781cc to 825cc(929pistons) or 848cc(954 pistons). im sure finding universal replacement iron sleeves and then cutting them down to match our 48mm stroke wouldnt be too big of a deal.

    boring though the aluminum composite sleeves might be a big obstacle, but it would be cool to gain a some displacement, and maybe the increased bore might allow larger valves. could you imagine this thing with 850 cc's and 1mm larger intake and exhaust valves, along with everything else that weve talked about? it would be a monster!

    mohawk, i know you talked about this already with the 5th gen, so not trying to steal credit on this one.
     
  9. Mohawk

    Mohawk New Member

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    Candyred, the VFR doesn't have sleeves. The alloy cylinders are cast into the upper crankcase. They are 8mm thick in the wall but unsupported where they meet the cylinder head. So it may be possible to take 1mm out of the walls (2mm over bore) safely but no one has done it AFAIK. I have a set of 929 pistons to do a comparison with the VFR's, but I've not had time as I'm working away at the moment. If you ere worried about the cylinder top then an alloy or stainless band could be heat shrunk on to the outside to reinforce it !
     
  10. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    vtec's have sleeves:

    - "Aluminum composite cylinder sleeves are high-pressure-formed from sintered aluminum powder impregnated with ceramic and graphite. The composite sleeves provide better wear resistance and superior heat dissipation compared to conventional sleeves."
     
  11. Mohawk

    Mohawk New Member

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    Correct. but they are NOT like steel ones which are heat inserted into the block. The VFR's are CAST in place, you can't heat the block to get them out like steel ones ! Have a look at this pic [​IMG]
     
  12. friedleyjr

    friedleyjr New Member

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    I loved RED GREEN is he still on Canadian TV? best moonroof ever was done by him to his neighbors van....
     
  13. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    you sure the 5th and 6th gens have the same cylinders?
     
  14. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    Give Millennium Technologies a call.......They can do overboring and installation of aluminum sleeves with Nikasil plating. Don't know what the dome shape and dimensions are for 929 pistons.

    This is a handy tool I've used in the past:

    http://www.wiseco.com/Calculators.aspx
     
  15. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    He's on public television stations in the US on Friday nights.......
     
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