Stumbling and surging

Discussion in '7th Generation 2010-Present' started by chainedlightning, Jun 26, 2012.

  1. lshark

    lshark New Member

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    my 2010 is a low serial number and no stumbling or surging problems at all...go figure !!
     
  2. lear 31a

    lear 31a New Member

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    Ah, deal's off. Dealer won't budge on price and I still love my 6th Gen'r. Maybe I will find a deal on the '13 model in a few months.
    Thanks for the great info.
     
  3. lshark

    lshark New Member

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    too bad, this is a fantastic bike....i would have no regrets even if i had paid list price for mine...
     
  4. MikB

    MikB New Member

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    Hi from the UK
    I can sympathise with the problem, I have a 2010 model that does the stumble/surge thing, I've had the 2012 ECU flash, it still does it, but suprise suprise Honda cant replicate it...!!!!
    I am convinced that the throttle bodies are out of sync as the idle speed hunts up and down as well. I've owned several fuel injected bikes in the past that have exhibited similar symptoms and have all benifited from syncronisation and TPS adjusted. When I get chance I'm gonna have a look myself. Thers no info in the service manual so if any one has any knowledge of this on the 1200 that'd be great.
    I'm guessing its the screws marked as "do not loosen/tighten" in the manual!!
     
  5. ststrada

    ststrada New Member

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    Mine had the same Stumbling issue as all of you. I got action but it was not until I sent American Honda customer service a certified letter that I was going to pursue a claim with my state. this is the first requirment for my state. I had to send Honda a letter and then let my consumer protect office have a copy. Must have all paperwork in order with dates of service and what was done. Shortly after got a call from Honda.
    Honda just "happened" to have a know good ECU sitting around so the sent to my dealer. Dealer put in new ECU and problem solved but I've held off saying anything until i put over 4000 miles on the new ecu.
    Be persistent and firm!
     
  6. crakerjac

    crakerjac New Member

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    Just a quick thought. Does anyone experiencing the 'stumbling and surging' have their EVAP Canister removed? I wonder if the solenoid is not working properly. E.g. Bike sits, gas evaporates and is trapped in EVAP canister, rider starts bike, solenoid opens dumping fuel from EVAP Canister into the system causing plugs to foul out, EVAP canister empties/solenoid closes, bike leans back out and rider experiences a surge in power.
     
  7. MikB

    MikB New Member

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    Uk spec - no EVAP. Given up up with Honda and fitted Bazzaz Z FI TC fitted - SORTED :congratulatory:
     
  8. MichaelD

    MichaelD New Member

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    There's a dealership here that has a NEW 2010 model on the floor. Guess I know why now. I've been looking at it thinking this spring I might just take it off their hands. Price is right. No more after running across this thread. I'll stick with my 6th gen.
     
  9. Hailwood

    Hailwood New Member

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    Count me as one VFR12 owner with ZERO stumbling/surging problems on my 2010 (currently with 9K mile on it) with a Z-Bomb.
    I run premium and ALWAYS put either Stabil or Amsoil fuel treatment in it.
    BTW, have figured out why Big Red put the retardation in the power in 1st and 2nd. The power comes on with a rush in those gears in the 3-4k RPM range with the Z-bomb and if you're not paying attention, this can be ummm, exciting. Unfortunately in today's litigational climate, reducing this surge was probably advised by the legal advisors.
    If you're paying attention the surge is WONDERFUL.
    Anyhow, I don't have an explanation for the issues you guys are having but I don't think it's endemic to the VFR12.
    I don't have a PCV or any other fuel management controls aside from the Z-bomb and LOVE the way the thing pulls through the gears and runs when out and about.
    The temptation to just wick it up and run 30-40 mph over the posted limit is always there and it's a testimony to my advanced years (63 this August) and self control (most of the time) that I don't do that EVERYWHERE !!!
    To anyone reading this forum who is contemplating a VFR12, disregard the entries from riders WHO DO NOT OWN ONE. This thing is an absolute locomotive and feels as solid as if it were carved out of billet. The build quality is stunning and you can pick up a gently used version (squids don't buy them) for a relative song.
    Seriously. Just ride one and you'll be hooked. I did and was.
    The Honda team that brought this bike to market knew what they were doing. You'll feel comfortable and familiar with it in just a few minutes in the saddle (like all VFRs) and find yourself whistling along far faster than you realize.
    It never sounds/feels stressed. I love that. It's not perfect but no bike is.
     
  10. Ricko600

    Ricko600 New Member

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    Newer 2010 model owner here. I just had my first ride with this problem. I've read almost every post in this thread and can't seem to find a clear "these are the problems and these are the solutions". Can someone help me here? The only "answer" seems to be to make sure there is no wgater in the fuel by using Stabil or Amsoil ALL the time. I'll give this a try and see if this goes away. I just had the Guhl re-flash.
     
  11. ytvfr

    ytvfr New Member

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    My bike spent lots of time at the dealer for this problem with no resolution, nor were they able to recreate the problem. (The worst kind of problem to have)

    Kudos to them, they kept on it, and were involved with Honda Canada throughout the process

    My bike ended up getting sent to Honda Canada for troubleshooting. When I got my bike back they said the ECU was reflashed with a different program and they were confident the problem was solved.

    This was 15,000kms ago and the problem has not resurfaced.

    I feel for anyone who is experiencing this issue as it is unnerving and does not instil confidence while riding the bike as it is unpredictable when or if the issue will reoccur.

    However with that being said I'm confident the issue has been solved with my bike.

    If you have warranty I suggest bringing it to a dealer and explaining your symptoms. I know this is the first time this happened, however I would suggest you keep a log of when it happens (gear, speed, symptoms)

    If you don't have warranty I would suggest calling Honda Customer Service and pleading your case in a calm and detailed manner.
     
  12. alexdig

    alexdig New Member

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    It's fixed.

    I had the exact same problem with a few thousand Kms on the bike.
    Honda Canada got involved. Took the bike to Markham Outdoor Power in Markham Ontario.
    The plugs were changed for the stalling issue.
    The ECU was re-flashed.
    I have 32,000 Kms on the bike and the problem has never occurred since
    The counter measure was performed.
    I love the bike. Have not considered anything else.
    I had the bike at three shops trying to fix it. I got Honda Canada involved and they worked with the dealer to fix the problem.
    The counter measure is known to them.
    Don't waste time with some of the additive solutions mentioned.
    Best wishes. Don't sell them bike !! It's a beauty!!


     
  13. New2010VFR1200Owner

    New2010VFR1200Owner New Member

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    So, all of you 2010 VFR "stumbling and surging" people out there... everybody keeps trying to blame the problem on bad gas, batteries, warm-up etc. I had the same problem with my 2010. It happened to me about 10 times over the period of a year. I bought this bike with 700 miles on it and it had about 11K on it when I traded it in. When I took it to the Honda Shop they would ride the bike 10 miles, when it didn't happen they would tell me that they can't fix a problem that will not show itself. They reflashed the ECU. But this was just putting the same code back that had the problem in the first place. There needs to be a software fix from Honda. I even filed a complaint with the NTSB. No response from Honda. I got rid of this bike before it killed me. Took a big loss on trade-in. Too bad because I really liked this bike. Honda just didn't sell enough of them in the US to give a crap about us folks who bought them. I had an ST1100 a while back but I am done with Honda. Good luck to you guys out there who are having this problem. Until Honda comes out with some new software or component for this bike you are just fooling yourselves with workarounds.
     
  14. alexdig

    alexdig New Member

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    Honda in Canada sold fewer bikes then in the USA by ten fold.
    Honda Canada got the problem looked after.
    I posted the name of the dealer and the phone number.
    Have your dealer call the dealer in Ontario.
    Phone number and contact info posted on page five of this string.
     
  15. Knight

    Knight New Member

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    This depends: If the bikes that were fixed received new code than that code would be widely available to all dealers and there would be a bulletin on it. If not, then there was either a problem with the initial flash, or some electrical event after the programming and testing of the ECU damaged the code.

    What is disconcerting is the failure of any redundancy check as the bike operates. When you put the key in and turn it on there should be some CRC check, which should fail, and turn a red light on. The darn computer should know that there is a problem with the darn computer, before you even turn the throttle.
     
  16. crakerjac

    crakerjac New Member

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    I've found that my 1200 is cold blooded. I have to let the bike warm up a minute before whacking on the throttle. If I start up my bike and start revving it right away, it will flood, stall and not want to start.

    Only once have I had this problem after the bike has warmed up... but I don't know what to chalk that up to. Since then, I've re-flashed my ECU (via Don Guhl to remove all the restrictions), blocked off the PAIR valve and installed a DAM exhaust. I think the PAIR valve confuses the O2 sensor and floods the motor... but I'm no mechanic. For me, it's been over a year and no problems. I consider it fixed (but now that I said this, it will stumble/surge on my ride home from work).
     
  17. New2010VFR1200Owner

    New2010VFR1200Owner New Member

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    Thanks Alex. But it is too late for me. I am in Florida and my problem was almost 2 years ago. Sold the bike back to the Honda shop at a loss. Bummer. Shame on Honda USA.
     
  18. anbark22

    anbark22 New Member

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    That's a shame because it is such a great bike (IMHO). Although I did not have the stumbling or surging issues, I did have my ECU flashed by Don a few weeks ago. I did it merely to eliminate the reduced power in 1st and 2nd gears, although it took a concerted effort to turn corners at low speeds. Boy what a difference the re-flash makes. It's like a different bike altogether. Low speed cornering is no longer an issue and the thing pulls like a freight train throughout the entire rev range, with no dips. I would have recommended the re-flash for you but it's too late..

    New2010VFRowner, I agree with you that Honda should have taken an interest in your issues. I contacted them a few years back when I first received the bike about the dip in power and a re-flash, based on all the European owners, but they responded "not for America". Also, the local Honda dealers have very little or no knowledge about the bike, here in North Florida, since very few were sold. I've only seen one other 1200 in the past 4 years. Yes, you have to do what's best for you and Honda certainly should have treated you better. Good look on your next bike.
     
  19. VFRKEN

    VFRKEN New Member

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    My 2010 still continues to experience this issue , tried almost everything suggested here and on other forums , and like everyone else my dealership has no answers . At this point I'm not going to throw more money at it or pay my dealership to come up empty handed . I also don't know how sell-able the bike would even be , as I wouldn't try to sell the bike to someone else without full disclosure of the issue . My 2010 does it actually quiet frequently , it really deters from enjoying the bike and feeling safe . At this point I feel like I'm Stuck with a bike I don't know what to do with ..............
     
  20. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    I have heard of the TPS sensor having an occasional problem in older CBR's. Just a thought.
     
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