Trust your tires?

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by VFR4Lee, Nov 12, 2017.

  1. VFR4Lee

    VFR4Lee Active Member

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    Michelin Pilot Road 4 dead at 1571 miles. Yes it was inflated properly, no I was not going very fast or doing anything stupid. Just cruising along at maybe 60 or 70 mph. Front end of the Tuono started to feel squirrely and 2 or 3 minutes later was at the road side happy it did not tank slap me off. This was not just a simple nail or screw as you can see. Multiple holes right through the tread and cords, at least 6 or 7 of them. WTF!? 100_2804.JPG
     
  2. Bubba Utah

    Bubba Utah Insider

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    Wow, Scary I have looked at your photo at least 5 times. I see what looks like 2 nails at the base of the picture and another at the most visible damage. Do you think that both being impaled into the tire at the same time in a turn caused this major failure!?
     
  3. VFR4Lee

    VFR4Lee Active Member

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    It's more than just that. No idea what caused it.
    100_2802.JPG
     
  4. slovcan

    slovcan Member

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    I don't know, Bubba. I don't see the nails. I see some dimples at the ends of some of the grooves, but those are designed into the tread.

    That is really bizarre. Michelin used to x-ray all their tires years ago, but of course production volumes don't allow that anymore. Now they x-ray some, but I don't know what how many per run or how they determine which ones get x-rayed. I am sure they would like to have a look at that tire and hear your thoughts on it. I want to know, too. I have Michelin tires on everything.

    Glad you stayed up!

    Glenn
     
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  5. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Well-Known Member

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    Yikes, I've never seen anything like that before. Good job landing that one safely. I think I'd be sending that one back to Michelin for analysis. The holes seem to come from inside the tyre rather than outside. Maybe you've got something loose inside the tyre e.g. a wheel weight or something.
     
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  6. 34468 Randy

    34468 Randy Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. Has a manufacturing issue appeared in their lines. If so, the are a lot of peoplehere running Michelin 4's and would like to know and be aware of this. I know I will be watching mine now. Your telling Michelin just might prompt them to look closely at this and might even prompt recall.

    To me it looks like a bad case of tread separation. Many here will remember the old Firestone 500's and what a disaster that tire was for tread separation. They cancelled production of the 500's and replaced those with the 721's, which really were no better.

    Please do keep us in the loop.
     
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  7. VFR4Lee

    VFR4Lee Active Member

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    I want to see what the inside looks like. figure take it back where I got it. See what the say.
    It all looked good the week before when I cleaned the wheel chain etc, and aired the tires, and then did not go for a ride.
     
  8. Bubba Utah

    Bubba Utah Insider

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  9. Bubba Utah

    Bubba Utah Insider

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    Well this adds to the issue. I did not see this photo!Damn!
     
  10. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Insider

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    Looks like a 'stinger' got it - you weren't being followed with blue flashing lights at the time - :Ballchain:

    As said above,

    I'd be wanting to see the other side of the tire - but its still knackered...
     
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  11. fink

    fink Insider

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    That tyre looks as if the tread block has separated from the carcass. looks to be 4 or 5 parts on the lhs where the tread looks to have been pulled apart. Hard to say properly from the flashed pic .
     
  12. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    Hmm - have you seen this video yet???



    Any expensive tyre(tire) designed for use on a high performance motorbike failing after so few miles without obvious rider abuse - really suggests a manufacturing fault which doubtless Michelin will be keen to inspect. (Assuming we can rule out riding the tyre over a stinger which doubtless you would have noticed at the time!)

    Given you were travelling at motorway speeds, you are very lucky that tyre did not kill you - BUT others may not be so lucky if that is part of a faulty batch!

    From the other side of the planet it is inevitably mostly speculation as to what may have happened. But I would NOT simply return it to the supplier - just in case they are wholly or partly at fault here - something which will only become clear once that tire is removed - so perhaps in this instance it is not a wise course of action to blithely trust the person who fitted it originally.

    Instead I would formally contact the Michelin importer to lodge a safety critical complaint - AND make sure you copy your complaint to whatever state or national safety standards body exists your side of the Pond. Follow their advice but make sure you comprehensively document/record (photos/video) what happens - a defect cover up, even if accompanied by significant financial compensation, is not the sort of thing any of us riders should be willing to accept.

    In the UK I would immediately contact the local trading standards office and get them to see the tyre before it goes anywhere near a tyre fitter! An independent witness may be of real value later. UK Trading Standards have strong legal powers to ban the sale of goods which may pose a safety risk. I bet there is a similar body in the States. Whether you also contact a lawyer is for you to choose...

    Finally make sure you tell Michelin that already loads of people (on this forum) who are now acutely aware of this issue and will be watching their response closely. You expect them to get this mess sorted out at no cost to you - and if this tyre is part of defective batch, ensure that recall action is taken as necessary.

    Good luck let us know how you get on.



    SkiMad
     
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  13. slovcan

    slovcan Member

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    Seeing that last photo makes it look like a total belt failure. It is possible, I suppose, that a puncture by something substantial could have caused it, but no way would you not realize you had hit something. If something big enough to do that amount of damage had been left in the tire at installation I'm sure you would have felt the imbalance - maybe even heard it when pushing the bike around.

    To me that looks like a structural failure of the tire and, like skimad said, Michelin needs to be contacted directly. Don't go back to the selling/installing dealer first.

    Also, let these guys know https://www.nhtsa.gov/ .

    Cheers,
    Glenn
     
  14. 34468 Randy

    34468 Randy Well-Known Member

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    From what I can see on the photo, those round indentations are not nails. They are designed into the tire, possibly to stop the tread from ripping further along from the end point of that particular sipe.

    A Stinger is a brand name for a hollow point spike belt or tire shoe. The are actually hollow spikes that get embedded into the tire and remain there allowing rapid but not sudden air loss from the tire. Those spikes remain in the tire. They are very visible. That failure, from what I can see, shows no signs of a hollow point spike.

    I really do think it is a tire failure and seems many here agree. Some good advise here on how to take this further. If I am not mistaken, the numbers on the sidewall will give us the batch number for the tire. I would really appreciate if you could get that number and post it up. Many of us here have these tires and it would give me a lot of piece of mind if I knew my tires were or were not from the same run.
     
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  15. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    I remember the Firestone epic failures.
    Lucky you did not crash. Please let us know what you find out. As stated above a lot of us run this tire including myself.
     
  16. VFR4Lee

    VFR4Lee Active Member

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    Sidewall says made in Spain.

    100_2852.JPG
     
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  17. Allyance

    Allyance Insider

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    I just replaced my last PR4 with a Metzler, it 6K miles on it, no problems but that is scary.

    Did you accelerate hard in a corner shortly before that?
     
  18. VFR4Lee

    VFR4Lee Active Member

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    Wasn't pushing it at all, just cruising, enjoying the ride on a cool day. Plan to take it in tomorrow.
     
  19. Mind_Surfer

    Mind_Surfer Member

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    Hey thanks for the word, I have one of those on the back of my 600RR, I am going to check the codes. Glad you are OK!

    Sent from my XT1031 using Tapatalk
     
  20. Mind_Surfer

    Mind_Surfer Member

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    What amount of weight did it take to balance? And make note of where the weights are relative to the failure.

    Sent from my XT1031 using Tapatalk
     
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