Voltage Regulator Repeat Failure VFR800 1998

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by vfr800_power, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. vfr800_power

    vfr800_power New Member

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    Summary: - VOLTAGE REGULATOR blows in summer 2010
    - New VOLTAGE REGULATOR (with aluminum heat sink plate installed) and BATTERY in 2011
    - Headlight burns
    - New ALTERNATOR summer 2011
    - VOLTAGE REGULATOR blows in summer 2012
    - New VOLTAGE REGULATOR (with aluminum heat sink plate & fan installed) in beginning summer 2012
    - Headlight burns
    - VOLTAGE REGULATOR blows end of summer 2012

    Does anyone have any idea of what could cause the regulator to keep on blowing?

    Full story:
    Lets get straight to it, I have a VFR800 1998, the previous owner said he had a problem with the charging system and had brought it to a garage where they had changed the voltage regulator (said it was the second time he had changed it since he owned the bike). Shortly after that he said that it died on him again so he decided to change the battery. Needless to say it eventually died again on him. When I got my hands on it I performed the ignition system trouble tree check as per Honda’s service manual and it pointed to the alternator coil, which was then replaced with an OEM new one, I also put an aluminum heat sink plate behind the voltage regulator. Also it should be noted here that the headlight was burnt out. Now after having change the alternator, I realised that the charging voltage was not quite as high as required, about 13V, I decided there was nothing I could do about it since ALL the components of the charging system were now pretty much new and that this could be attributed to the fact that the bike had a lot of mileage on it (140 000 km). Now next summer I realised that as the lights would dim as I reved it up, so I performed an other check and it was another faulty voltage regulator, charging voltage about 12V and dipped to the 11s as I reved, so I replaced it with a new heavy duty one (or they say), furthermore I mounted a small cooling fan on it in addition to the previously stated heat sink plate. Once again charging voltage was not quite satisfactory (about 13V) but nothing more I could do. Now headlight burns out again. And one day as I am riding home the speedometer dies on me, then eventually so does the bike. Voltage regulator AGAIN (4th one so far). Now all the connections seem fine and there isn’t any short to ground. Does anyone have any idea of what could cause the regulator to keep on blowing?
     
  2. vfr800_power

    vfr800_power New Member

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    Summary: - VOLTAGE REGULATOR blows in summer 2010
    - New VOLTAGE REGULATOR (with aluminum heat sink plate installed) and BATTERY in 2011
    - Headlight burns
    - New ALTERNATOR summer 2011
    - VOLTAGE REGULATOR blows in summer 2012
    - New VOLTAGE REGULATOR (with aluminum heat sink plate & fan installed) in beginning summer 2012
    - Headlight burns
    - VOLTAGE REGULATOR blows end of summer 2012

    Does anyone have any idea of what could cause the regulator to keep on blowing?

    Full story:
    Lets get straight to it, I have a VFR800 1998, the previous owner said he had a problem with the charging system and had brought it to a garage where they had changed the voltage regulator (said it was the second time he had changed it since he owned the bike). Shortly after that he said that it died on him again so he decided to change the battery. Needless to say it eventually died again on him. When I got my hands on it I performed the ignition system trouble tree check as per Honda’s service manual and it pointed to the alternator coil, which was then replaced with an OEM new one, I also put an aluminum heat sink plate behind the voltage regulator. Also it should be noted here that the headlight was burnt out. Now after having change the alternator, I realised that the charging voltage was not quite as high as required, about 13V, I decided there was nothing I could do about it since ALL the components of the charging system were now pretty much new and that this could be attributed to the fact that the bike had a lot of mileage on it (140 000 km). Now next summer I realised that as the lights would dim as I reved it up, so I performed an other check and it was another faulty voltage regulator, charging voltage about 12V and dipped to the 11s as I reved, so I replaced it with a new heavy duty one (or they say), furthermore I mounted a small cooling fan on it in addition to the previously stated heat sink plate. Once again charging voltage was not quite satisfactory (about 13V) but nothing more I could do. Now headlight burns out again. And one day as I am riding home the speedometer dies on me, then eventually so does the bike. Voltage regulator AGAIN (4th one so far). Now all the connections seem fine and there isn’t any short to ground. Does anyone have any idea of what could cause the regulator to keep on blowing?
     
  3. Scubalong

    Scubalong Official Greeter?

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    Rubo and Melo dude should be able to help you with this issue, try shoot them a PM.
    Good luck
     
  4. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Crappy Honda R/R's. Tell em you heard it here.
     
  5. zoom-zoom

    zoom-zoom Member

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    Rubo started a good thread on how to check the charging system for faults. Here is a link to the post on the forum.

    http://vfrworld.com/forums/5th-gene...how-fix-common-regulator-stator-failures.html

    Have you always replaced the R/R with a factory Honda unit or have you tried any of the aftermarket units? The factory Honda R/R's seem to be a chronic problem. I have added an R/R from JT at wiremybike.com and added a VFRness as well. The VFRness connects the new R/R direct to the battery to prevent the OEM 30 amp fuse from melting and causing problems with the charging system. From what I have read the factory 30 amp fuse also seems to be a weak point and the VFRness takes care of this issue and adds an inline fuse to protect the battery and the rest of the electrical and also uses a heavier gauge wire than the stock system uses.

    Here is a link to the wiremybike website. Check them out and contact JT if you have any questions about his products. The owner of the site is a long time VFR owner himself so he is familiar with the charging system issues.

    Wire My Bike

    Good luck and I hope everything works out.
     
  6. Pliskin

    Pliskin New Member

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    Wow - not only are you a member of "my shitty R/R fried my bike" club, but you may be the president.

    Something is definitely amiss. The link posted above by zoom zoom is definitely filled with all sorts of good and useful information. Read it well.

    I'm one of many in the group that went with products from JT at wiremybike. MOSFET R/R with a new VFRness. My voltage stays rock solid from start up to shut down. No more problems (and I had my fair share of them, all related to the faulty R/R).
     
  7. taylor65

    taylor65 New Member

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    Where are you buying your r\r? I believe the oem from honda is nothing more than a paper weight. I bought mine from ricks motosports and my charging problems are gone. I also have a fan installed and soldered my wires together to take awaythe chance of another buurnt harness. Have you done any tests on the new coils which is possible it could be bad. Good luck I know it is very aggravating.
     
  8. vfr800_power

    vfr800_power New Member

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    New coils are good, and the r/r are from ebay, a modified heavy duty version, definatley not the OEM Honda "paper weight".
     
  9. vfr800_power

    vfr800_power New Member

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    I am trying to identify what could cause a voltage regulator to keep failing if everything else in the charging circuit is new and as per spec!
     
  10. vfr800_power

    vfr800_power New Member

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    Thanks for the info, and BTW the r/r where all heavy duty ones, definatly not OEM Honda pieces of crap! I will look into the harness issue, I think you are onto something there, thanks again!
     
  11. vfr800_power

    vfr800_power New Member

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    Thanks for the recommendation, just for fun what were your issues and what were your diagnostics followed by your attempted corrective measures?
     
  12. SinNH

    SinNH New Member

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    From what I understand, from all the information out there on our gen 5's, grounding is the upmost important issue, seems as important as eliminating the mechanical connectors. You can see that Japan didn't trust the connectors either, as they paralleled the ground and the red/w hot. I soldered all my connections, ground all the paint off the frame where the plate butts, used heat sink paste and tapped into the two green leads just outboard of the RR and ran a #10 THHN to a great ground point. No issues in about 10.5 K. So far.:vtr2:

    Oh yea I am running the "upgraded" Honda RR SH689DA.
    If I was having your issue, just sort of guessing, I would install a fuse it the two red/w wires just as they leave the RR. Can't hurt.
     
  13. Pliskin

    Pliskin New Member

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    My bike had the R/R replaced prior to my ownership. The one on my bike was from a Blackbird.

    Its been a while since that R/R failed, but if I recall, I was getting various false readings on the FI diagnostic light. Computer codes displayed my BARO sensor was failing. 2 days later my speed sensor was failing. Then something else. I'd clean and check all connections, clear the codes, all would be fine, and then it would start all over again. I think I also blew at least one headlamp, but that may have been coincidence.

    When I finally checked my voltage - which I stupidly had been ignoring because my bike "always started right up" - I saw that it was all over the place. 12v at idle. Then 13.8. Rev it up, and I'd go from 15v to 11.8 to 13 to 14 to 12 all within seconds. So I finally check all my connections from the R/R, and sure enough, the wires and connectors were all crispy.

    [​IMG]



    When you replace the R/R again, I would strongly suggest soldering the wires from the R/R to the stator. (Its been a while, but if I recall, its the 3 yellow wires. It does not matter what order the wires are soldered in). Even though I installed the VFRness (which is a great product and comes with new spade connections, the type you click together), I still went and soldered it. I think that eliminates the potential weak spot.

    After that, no more issues with the codes. I now idle at 13.1 to 13.2v, and from 2000 RPM up to 6000, my voltage only fluctuates between 14.68 and 14.72. Never varies.


    Sorry for that massive picture. I don't know how to shrink it down!
     
  14. mello dude

    mello dude Administrator

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    No offense, but well -- -duh. (my 2 cents) R/Rs are not something to buy from ebay unless you know exactly what it is. My guess is the only thing heavy duty about the part you are buying is the bucks you are giving the vendor. From reading all these R/R threads, there seems to be only 3 styles that work out. -- the Shindengen FH020AA - (many OEMs are using this part today), Ricks HD - (input from VFRD and VFRW guys, I have no experience with this part, just reporting) and a series R/R like the Compufire. Another tid bit is consensus is the Electrosport R/Rs are unreliable.

    - Other notes - you mentioned that the headlight keeps burning out. There may be some grounding or shorting issues going on, unrelated to the charging system. The thing is, once the light is burned out, you have excess wattage that has to go somewhere and that somewhere has to be dumped to ground -- thru the R/R. --So you really need to dig into the "why" on the headlight thing or chances are it doesnt matter what R/R you stick on there, chances are, its going to burn it. -- Your bike has relatively high miles and you may have some corrosion in some connectors that is hosing your charging system.

    - The orange grounding block on the 5th gens is notorius for corrosion problems and reeking havoc in the charging system. Its worth a look to check its status on your bike with the higher miles. -- Its the one that is black tape sealed up by the stator connector.

    --- Go thru all the connector/harness stuff first before spending any more bucks on R/Rs. Only then start the charging debug. -- Pliskin's pic is a good "why"

    - I know you said you have a new battery, but with the crap your going thru, dont trust it. A bad battery can make a good R/R look bad. A solid good full charge battery is the anchor of your system. --- Charge the thing overnite and then get it load tested. Confirm for real its good.

    Next --- do a real analysis of your system, gimme numbers, I suck at just good/no good. Dont really like to debug by forum mostly cause I'm a touch it, smell it, see it guy. But here's the link again, that is probly the best debug link on the viffer charging between VFRD and VFRW. Grab a brew, take a read.

    http://vfrworld.com/forums/5th-gene...how-fix-common-regulator-stator-failures.html

    The short cut below is the debug list I have been posting, its also in the "failures" thread.

    ---Go through this starting point quick list. You will need a multimeter too.
    Steps:-
    - Recharge battery overnite - then to take it to Autozone or similar to load test. -- Good? Bad? – An iffy battery can fake you out and act like a bad R/R. Buy new if needed.

    - With good battery fire it up, warm up for a minute or two.
    These are R/R quick checks---
    --- With voltmeter at battery get voltages -- idle volts? 5000 rpm volts? What’s the numbers? Should be in 13ish min idle and in 14s at revs. (if in the 12s at idle, check at about 1900rpms instead.)

    - Check stator
    - 1. Pull connector apart. Set meter to resistance. Check pin to pin, 3 yellow wires, A to B, B to C, C to A. What’s the numbers? 3 separate readings --Should be less than 1.0 ohms. (Engine off)

    - 2. Check continuity from each A,B,C pin to ground, -- -should be infinity - nada nothing. no continuity. -- 3 separate checks. (Engine off)

    - 3. Crank it back up. Do another pin to pin thing, but set meter on AC volts. idle and 5000 rpms. What's da numbers? Should start 15 -20ish and climb 50ish and more. Again – 3 readings- Repeat hot.

    This quick list will catch the obvious stuff, but if you need to dig deeper check this chart.
    http://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf

    Good luck dude.
    :cool:
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  15. vfr800_power

    vfr800_power New Member

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    I fully charged the battery and took it to get professionaly checked out, we tried 3 times because the first time it barely passed but it was probably due to bad connection, then we did it 2 more times and it passed both times here are the results:

    -First try: Voltage: 12.84V Measured: 241 CCA Temperature: 15 deg C or 59 deg F (Barely passed)
    -Second try: Voltage: 12.84V Measured: 248 CCA Temperature: 15 deg C or 59 deg F (OK)
    -Third try: Voltage: 12.78V Measured: 251 CCA Temperature: 14 deg C or 57.2 deg F (OK)

    The battery is a Motomaster 12-BS

    Let me know what you think of these results
     
  16. mello dude

    mello dude Administrator

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    A basic load tester does a roughly 10 second load and the battery is rated good/bad based on output amperage. Usually the voltage will drop a volt or 2. I'm guessing --- your battery looks ok.

    If the bike was sitting in my garage, the problem that you have is you have to figure out why the lights are blowing out. Sooo...
    --- If the bike will start, do a quick voltage test - idle and 5000 rpm. If the volts are north of 15v you have a good idea of whats going on. - You dont want to do any more damage than what has already been done, so dont ride it
    - Park the bike and order a new R/R - I'll go out on a limb and say buy one from Shindengen FH020AA Mosfet Regulator/Rectifier - Roadstercycle. - You dont have to get a VFRness if you go this route.

    - In any case of whether the volts are high or come out low, you gotta pull the front cowl and the side plastic off and dig into connectors, fuses, crispy wires. If the volt are high, chances are it fried something, if the volts are low you have a parasitic load from effed up wires or connectors or a partial short and that is zapping your headlight and then zapping the R/R. ( yeah, this isnt fun)

    - You may as well do the stator checks and see what pops up too.

    Wish I could tell you something better but unfortunately there is no short cut or you'll be back here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
  17. vfr800_power

    vfr800_power New Member

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    Ok well I took the bike out for summer officially today, took apart the front fairing dropped the oil and while it was draining I decided to remove the rear fairing to start looking into this whole issue (I know im way late but winter lasted forever this year)... humm this seems legit right?

    20130406_145558.jpg

    Didnt take too long, i think its safe to say i need a new regulator and wiring harness, just ordered the kit from wiremybike I hope their product is as good as people are saying!

    BTW this is very scary, I am thinking about changing the battery while im at and remove the stator cover to look and it in details even though the resistances and check for short to grounds check out.... What could have caused this???? Any comments?
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  18. mello dude

    mello dude Administrator

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    You got quite a mess there that needs to be fixed properly before you can even begin to debug what the hell is going on with your system.
    I take it you are refering to the VFRness as the harness and you said you bought an R/R. Dude -- new parts and the harnesss wont help you one bit until the wire mess you have is fixed. Dont do anything else for now. -- Now you know why there is 5 posts about saying check connectors and wire harness first. REPEAT -- FIX THIS FIRST!

    btw - Dont run the bike!


    -- Suggestion - find a buddy and get help.
     
  19. CandyRedRC46

    CandyRedRC46 Member

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    I am right there with you buddy. I went through my first rr and stator at 20,000 miles. I threw some ebay stuff on the bike after reading heavy duty, upgraded etc... It never really worked right. The voltage was way too high and was blowing light bulbs like crazy. Then I got the compufire rr and oem stator and vfrness, which I all direct soldered together (no connections). That combo was good for another year and a half. Basically not quite as long as the orignal parts lasted. Then I put the electrosport rr and stator on it. I got a month out of that combo before it started over charging like crazy, melting my thirty amp fuse holder.

    This time around I am using the fh020aa rr (2013 Yamaha R1) and Honda stator. Everything is still direct soldered, plus now it is wired straight to the battery, fused in between, and I wound up mounting the rr on the left hand passenger peg to keep it cool and shorten the path that the current must travel from the stator to rr to the battery. OH, and the most important part, I installed what every VFR MUST have!!! A volt meter!. Now voltage is rock solid, peaking at 14.1 volts unloaded and dropping to 13.0 loaded up at idle.


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    BF058ADD-FF48-45BD-AB69-787D0638468B-1336-00000091A50A6984_zps86a1f33d.mp4 Video by candyredrc46 | Photobucket
     
  20. mello dude

    mello dude Administrator

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    As a btw - the FH020AA is manufactured by Shindengen. Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki,and even Honda buy their R/Rs from them. Cant say whether Honda has joined the MOSFET party yet.
     
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