You guys use your rear brake much?

Discussion in '7th Generation 2010-Present' started by Befbever, Aug 11, 2013.

  1. GreyVF750F

    GreyVF750F Member

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    The rear brakes are nothing but a danger most of the time. It doesn't take much pedal on the rear to get in to trouble in any corner. Most riders I know are so so on front brake modulating and the rear is harder with the foot because your supporting your weight and more on your leg/foot running corners. So modulating the rear brake is a crap shoot. Our race bikes had only enough rear brake to put a drag on the bike. Which we never really used. If you know how to really modulate the front brakes you don't need a rear.

    Now may be on a straight away where you're trying to stop in the shortest distance the rear might help a little. Though in that situation most of the weight of the bike and rider is on the front wheel. That's the one that will stop you. With little weight on the rear of the bike the rear wheel will lock without much of a problem with any good amount of pressure on the pedal.

    Because of the years of racing I did I have it in my skills not to use the rear brake in 98% of situations I've been in. There are times I have used it, a couple by accident(to high pedal), and it' has done nothing or has gotten me in to a "Oh Shit" moment.

    Plus if you want to go fast on a race track you don't even use the rear for the most part. It's more of a mental crutch than anything else. Learn good front brake modulation and you will forget all about the rear brake.


    I got this straight out of the CA dmv motorcycle manual

    • Squeeze the front brake smoothly, firmly and with progressively more force. Do not grab the brake lever or use abrupt pressure.


    That is wrong to a degree. Correct you do not JAM on the front brakes. You JAB on the front brakes for a quick stop. Once you learn PROPER brake modulation you will stop in the shortest distance.

    The difference between JAM and JAB is:
    JAM is grabbing a handful of brake the hardest you can and not backing off a tad instantly (if needed) and will most likely lock the front.

    JAB is quickly grabbing a handful of brake close to lock up and then quickly modulating from that point. Either more or less.

    It's the same with braking race cars. It's a feel thing and most of all a reaction skill one can acquire through practice. There are ways to work up to that point. The problem of locking the front wheel is most riders when they get to that point are to slow to modulate back from lock up. I've momentarily have locked the front a few times without any ill effects because my reflex to back off a tad is almost instant. Also if your going straight and lock the front tire momentarily is usually just skids straight with no ill effect. If you can modulate the brake fast enough. If you only progressively apply front brake your not going to stop as short as you can.

    But for those that don't reach that skill level of brake modulation, then I guess use all the brakes you have cause you'll need them. Don't be afraid of using the front brakes hard. Just learn how to use them hard. That's why they have linked brakes for those who haven't learned yet.

    Ok I'm done...............................
     
  2. cornerexit

    cornerexit New Member

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    A race bike is not a street bike dude, not in the slightest. A master cylinder can fail, a brake line can develop a leak. If you are 1000 miles from home and this happens, well I damn sure want a 100% functioning rear brake and know how to use it.

    In a panic stop, which I've used every year I've been riding motorcycles, you want 100% of braking force available to you and that means 100% of the front, and 100% of the rear. They even teach this in MSF courses.

    Racing and riding on the street are extremely different.
     
  3. ftl900

    ftl900 New Member

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    Back in my racing days, it was front only. Now with the Gen 5 VFR, I have been using front only, but got to thinking... front only uses two pistons on the front, while rear engages one piston on the front. Something like that...

    So I've been practicing using both brakes and was surprised how much quicker it will stop using both.
     
  4. reg71

    reg71 Poser Staff Member

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    yeah, I remember that now. I didn't notice what bike we were talking about at first. The VFR12 did it the way it should have always been done IMO. I'm used to the way my 5th gen is now, but I like the way they did it on the 12 better.
     
  5. reg71

    reg71 Poser Staff Member

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    Jev I have to quote your message otherwise I never read it cause my eyes keep getting pulled left for some reason.

    Back to brakes. I have them, I use them but I also use engine braking quite a bit. Just ask anyone who has followed me into a corner smelling my gas laden exhaust and listening to 9k plus RPMs and backfires. :)
     
  6. reg71

    reg71 Poser Staff Member

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    that's low.
     
  7. GreyVF750F

    GreyVF750F Member

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    Dude! wake up they are both bikes! They work the same way!

    "A master cylinder can fail, a brake line can develop a leak. If you are 1000 miles from home." Never had it happen in thirty plus years of riding and taking long trips. I maintain my bike properly. I do all the work! LOL

    Go ahead use the rear brake at 100% you'll find out it will lock up. that is if you're moving.

    "Racing and riding on the street are extremely different." No so Grass Hopper it's the same "mental state". You may learn one of these days. If you don't crash out first from to many panic stops.

    ABS twin braking is great. Relaying on the rear brake to stop you is fantasy.
     
  8. Ocard

    Ocard New Member

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    Bullshit. If you really think so, you should practice braking.

    Well "need"... you only "need" it, when you want to achieve full braking power.

    Actually your first choice of words was absolutely correct. In stress situations we tend to fall back in basic action schemes - that don't have to be habits from regular riding. This is basically not related to how hard one brakes.
    What I say is, it's best to stay calm and reasonable. What me helps with that is knowing that:
    My tires won't lock from braking. Ever.
    My engine won't stall. I don't have to think about clutch and gears.
    Stand up moment is quite controllable.
    With the Roadsmarts 2 she will fishtail while braking hard from high speeds (>120mph) under light lean angle, but that's harmless and ends imediately when easing of the brakes.

    In short, there's no need to worry and hard braking is an easy, controllable, normal riding state. It's like cornering. No need to panic mid corner cause you're at high lean angles.
     
  9. cornerexit

    cornerexit New Member

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    No it's not the same mental state, and poor advice. When I do a trackday I'm not concerned with moving animals, cars pulling out in front of me, debris, etc. My main concern is hitting my brake markers and the only time I've ever used the rear brake is for trail braking.

    I never said I 100% rely on the rear brake, only that I know how to use it, for panic stops on the street. In a panic stop (to avoid whatever) the bike stops quicker with both brakes applied. Sure you can lock up the rear, you can also lock the front, big fucking deal.
    Just a month ago I had some old lady pull into the road from her driveway, right in the middle of a blind corner, and she chose not to accelerate, going 2 MPH. I stopped with about 1' of space between the bike and her rear bumper. Thanks rear AND front brakes.

    And I've had the front brakes fail before on a bike. The hose from the master cylinder to the reservoir developed a leak a long way from home. I rode home with nothing but the rear brake. Sure glad I wasn't relying on your advice. ;) MSF and you are at odds. perhaps you should email them.
     
  10. Befbever

    Befbever New Member

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    Apparently you're not the only one.
     
  11. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Those are the breaks.
     
  12. GreyVF750F

    GreyVF750F Member

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    It's the same mental state and you kind of proved it. It's to focus on your surroundings. Whether be it race track or street.

    Yes on the track your surroundings are brake markers,entrance,apex,exit of corners. Hearing other bikes come up behind you, the guy(s) in front of you being aware of what they are doing. etc

    Your right on the street it's a different surrounding as you said squirrels,deers, cars, oil/diesel on the road etc. And all the other stuff in the real world.

    That's why I said it was the same. You better have a mental state of focusing on your surroundings or your just a moving target. Be it track or street. IMO
     
  13. cornerexit

    cornerexit New Member

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    I'm concerned with much different "Surroundings" at the track compared to the street.

    In many ways they are applicable, and in many ways they are not.

    They aren't the same but I'm tired of arguing with you.
     
  14. ridervfr

    ridervfr Member

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    I had over 70,000 miles on my rear brake pads and for shits and grins, I decided to change them. They work well when you carry a pillion, or filling up at a petrol station, good for some parking lot moves like tight arse u-turns...They do have a place though. AnywHooooOOOOOoOO...Those pistons looked weird, may be like an above poster sed, "linked brakes operate partial rear pistons when only the front brake lever is applied, jury is oot on that though. I like traditional stuff generally, so no linked brakes or ABS in my life so far...wifes car has ABS but that used to be mine :sad: :pout:
     
  15. lshark

    lshark New Member

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    like i said it's instict, but after being curious for the past few days since this thread stsrted....i def am on the rear by the time i get my hand on the front lever.....and i couldn't lock the rear on the VFR12 no matter how hard i tried...did get an ABS out of it when i tried a full on panic stop, frt and rr
     
  16. Bryan88

    Bryan88 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    I probably use my back brakes too much, for 2 reasons. Firstly I find the bike doesn't dive as much but secondly the VFR is the first bike I've owned where the brake light switch on the front brake lever actually worked.
     
  17. Volfy

    Volfy New Member

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    Rear brake is just a tool. It is available on just about every single 2-wheeled vehicle. You can either fear it and avoid touching it. Or you can learn to respect its power, understand the effects of its use, and practice to be proficient at its application.

    Choice is yours.

    If you are reading this, chances are you have chosen to operate an immensely powerful motorized vehicle that most of the general public fear and avoid. Yet you chose to respect, understand and practice its use, and - dare I say - derive pleasure from reigning over the very beast.

    You chose... wisely.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Do you really talk like that?
     
  19. Volfy

    Volfy New Member

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    Sorry BB, I was possessed by the Grail Knight this morning. It happens...
     
  20. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Costumes and all?
     
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