When I picked up my VFR this spring, a friend from work who had never ridden in his life, bought my Nighthawk 750 from me so that he could learn on it. I was happy to sell it to someone I knew, because I took great care of the bike for 13 years. He seemed very interested in getting guidance from me on all aspects of motorcycling - from riding technique to maintenance to gear. On my suggestion, he signed up for a MSF course, picked up a helmet and leather jacket/gloves, and went and got his learners permit. Fast forward about 8 weeks, and he's out riding around with no license yet, leaves his helmet and leather in the closet, gives rides to his kids, neighborhood kids, and pretty much anyone else who wants a ride. He now tells me that he has "mastered" the Nighthawk and needs a bigger bike like a Boulevard 1800 after riding for only 2 months. Yet he complained that when he had to make a sharp left turn around a car in an intersection, the bike was "too damn heavy to turn". When I hear this stuff, my response usually is "you need to learn to turn that bike before you ride it in traffic" or "one accident is all it will take to make you really wish you wore your helmet". This is a guy with kids, and an ex-wife who can barely take care of herself. I'd hate to think of how those kids would live if something happened to him. Anyway, I realize that he is an adult and is going to do what he wants to. I can't force him to be smart. It just makes it very difficult to want to go take a ride with the guy when he keeps asking me to. In all honesty, it makes me want to avoid even talking to him because if he brings up riding he will no doubt tell me something that will make me cringe. Thanks for letting me vent. I feel much better now..... :smile:
Best to be honest with him. Perhaps you should meet in a vacant parking lot to see his new found skills. I would also tell him how you feel about riding without gear and the real danger he poses to others as well. Honesty is the best policy ....
Sorry to hear this. It is irresponsible of him to ride like this and it sets a bad example for his and all other kids. Problem is that without a helmet even a low speed event could kill him. These people. They think they can control how they will fall off the bike. I wonder what he is going to do when he survives one his lil outings but with his lower jaw ripped off. Anyway I can rant forever on these twits. I think you are more affected then usual because you are pesonally vested in his bad behavior. It is your old, well taken care of ride he is using to be stupid on. I wonder how you would feel about his stupidity if your old friend wan't involved. When he wrecks it you are going to kick yourself. This is why no matter how much they BEG you should not sell anyting to relatives or friends. I have been through it. I sold my beloved CB750K to a friend only to watch him take it apart and then stop carring about it enough to put it back together. It left life as a box of parts and an empty frame. Anyway, there are two ways to look at it. You could ride with him and take him on a ride that will let him realize how little he knows. Then again, it could be his last trip. OR You could just tell him and offer to help him (not sure how that would go over)
Good advice above... I agree with the honesty route. I would refuse to ride with him and when he asks why, tell him! No training, no gear, with a poor attitude to boot. Sorry to hear a friend is a moron when he gets on a bike, that's always tough. BZ
That is unfortunate. Especially giving kids rides without them at least wearing protective gear. I see so many people riding in t-shirt and jeans around here that I could see how a beginner without training might think that is normal riding gear. I have read (and noticed in myself) that new riders often become overconfident after a couple months of riding. Especially after taking a few rides and having nothing go wrong or any close calls. I know one thing that works for me at least to keep wearing ATGATT and ride carefully is occassionally to look at pics of motorcycle accidents and road rash.
My humble opinion is the same as all of those above ^. All you can do is speak your mind and hope that it will make a difference for the better. It is useful in a difficult situation to make sure that one's opinion is asked for. For example, the next time you get asked to go for a ride, state something along the lines of, "Well, you have asked me several times, and you need to know that I am just not comfortable going for a ride with you. I have my reasons, and I will be happy to discuss them if you are so inclined." Like a lot of things, the hard part is getting started. And for what it is worth, I have been accused of being confrontational. My only defense is that if somebody is being an absolute twit, SOMEBODY needs to confront them.
I would do as you were suggesting...I would not ride with him unless he gears up all the time. Tell him he needs to take it seriously, or he will end up paying in the end.
I'm in agreement with the guys. You did your part. Some people have to learn things the hard way. I'm one of them most of the time. Luckily for me I lived through it. He may not. Tell him how you feel and if you lose a friend(by him getting mad not by him dying), he probably wasn't as much a friend as you thought. I have many friends who have differences of opinion with me but we still are friends.
hmm my post got lost. basicly i say lure him to a parking lot. and show him how well that bike can turn and how well you can ride it and then ask him to try, when he can't suggest getting his licence. flattery will get you everything. say something to the effect you miss the bike as your new vfr can't do low speed corners as well because the bars hit the tank or something. then say you want to compare this in a parking lot. Invite him(don't let him on yours...) bring cones.... once there do a tight tight circle and then do it the other way... say "ya that turns nice" you give it a try... when he hits a cone say you should take a lesson... maybe even some other drills....short and sweet though so he is not humilated but still thinks damn... i should be able to ride like that. For the gear.....simply forward him an email of very graphic images of what happens with out road gear. then backed by some statistics backing up it not if you go down...it is when.
I agree with everything you guys have said so far. Due to family schedules we have not even had a chance to ride together even if I wanted to, but I was thinking I would take him to the DMV on a Sunday and show him how the course is done. Then let him try it (and almost certainly fail miserably). I was chatting with him not more than 10 minutes ago and he said he has the "damn MSF class all weekend". I replied with "go into it with an open mind and I guarantee you will learn a lot about handling your bike". He said that he doesn't need to worry about handling, and that where he rides the roads are all straight. We were talking yesterday about planning a ride sometime and I said "I have some cool roads to show you but if we go you need to wear your helmet!" He replied by saying "where I like to ride there aren't any cars so I don't need it". I reminded him that my one crash (a high-side on the bike I sold him) happened on an empty road away from everyone, and my helmet smacked the ground and ruined it. No response to that one.... I'm starting to think he's messing with me, and just trying to get me riled up because he knows I'm passionate about this issue... :smile:
If your friend insists on riding along at least ask him for a copy of his health insurance card and insist on going where there's cell phone coverage.
HI, before all, I beg your pardon if I "enter" your discussion. The problem is not only the way this kind of guys drive a bike, the problem is that such behaviors derive from a bad life style, If any. The problem is that when there are stratetical moments in the life they can change your life;I mean : do you think it is normal their vote (I mean during the political elections) has the same value than yours ? This could, perhaps, explain the reason why you find yourself always "administrated" by persons you did not choose. THEY CHOSE for YOU ! A bad road user is certainly a bad citizen in all the points of view of the life. That's all. Well, thanks for this little space and...Lamps to all VFR owners.
Damn, Britt, That does suck. The only advice I could offer is this. When I'm faced with similar situations, I try to "educate" the individual, at least on a friendly, familiar level. Usually I can get the point across and all is well. However, I have had many times where, as you said, "they do what they want to do". At that point, I usually isolate myself from those type of people. One, because I don't need to hang around irresponsible idiots, who have no damn sense! Two, I don't need these people in my families life, either. It may be a shitty thing to do, but you'll be better off. Unfortunately, it's gonna take a "wake up call" to knock any sense into him about the responsibility of riding a motorcycle.
Ditto, Ditto Ditto Ditto and many more Ditto's. You can also tell him you are squeamish. When he doesn't get it, educate. PS, I don't think LGN is confrontational at all. He just points out perspectives from an alternative point of view in a language consistent with sub politically acceptable beings from Pluto
I'd flat tell him I won't ride with him unless he wears gear. If he doesn't like it, tough shit. And then I'd tell him that as bad as he would feel if he went down, how much worse he would feel if it happened while giving the neighborhood kids a ride.
I WILL NOT ride with people who don't gear up. I am not asking everyone to wear the same gear that I do since I go overboard pretty much everytime I ride. I am firmly of the belief that if person 1 does something inappropriate & person 2 has a problem but does nothing, then person 2 is now part of the problem. Since I have no time or tolerance for stupid people, I will ask them once to gear up & if they don't they don't ride near me, period. I am also of the belief that Darwinism is a very important force in the universe. This seems to be a perfect example of this. KC-10 FE out... lane: :usa2:
I agree with KC, no gear, no ride. I will make an excuse as to why I have to leave if I don't feel comfortable riding with someone because of attitude , lack of gear, or general ineptitude. I had an overconfidence problem my second or third year of riding and was lucky to live through a low side on Bear Mtn. in NY about 20 years ago. I went back to Bear Mtn a few weeks ago and can't figure out what was so difficult about the road. There is no substitute for experience, but education is a close second. Encourage him to take the advanced course if he makes it through the first msf course. I just picked up Nick Ienatch's (spelling?) book and I am still learning new techniques after 22 years of riding. I hope your friendship and your friend survive the learning curve. I encouraged a younger friend to get into motorcycling and didn't even consider the possibility of his getting hurt until afterward. I still worry about him because of his sometimes fearless and aggressive riding. Good Luck, Keith
