Use of Rotella T in motorcycles.... no bueno

Invisible (or should I call you "Mr. Cities"?):

First of all let me confess that I don't know much about the VF500F beyond the fact that it is a breathtakingly lovely bike. However wading in with what I would do if it were my bike:

1. Use the viscosity Honda recommends. If the manual says 10W-30, use it; ditto if it says 20W-50, 10W-40, or 0W-Infinity.
2. Use a synthetic; I don't know enough to distinguish between brands. All of them are better oils than Honda engine designers dreamed of in 1984. As previously indicated, I wouldn't get hung up over if it's a group III mineral, PAO, or esther base.
3. Watch for tribal knowledge. Every once in a while every manufacturer misses a detail in an engine design which drives a peculiar lubrication need. BMW M3 autos of a certain vintage ended up needing somebody's snazzy (and expensive) oil to address a particular issue. I haven't heard but also haven't been listening to know if the VF500Fs have this kind of history.
4. Drain and flush the cooling system on something approaching Honda's recommended interval. Having goop in the cooling passages can create a local hot spot. The resulting damage in that area that will then often be incorrectly blamed on the lubrication.
5. Sending the used oil to be sampled and cutting open the old oil filter and examining for particles gives additional peace of mind to those of us who should probably be doing something better with our lives.

Best wishes.

PS: Yes; I am old enough that I worked on that particular helicopter, remember the house it's carrying, and knew the pilots.

 

switch to 100% syn

 

Okay, this post just made my day.

I had a hunch you might be a Sikorsky man. Very cool indeed. The Skycrane is one of my all time favorite designs. This must have been an amazing project to work on and to be there working on this back in the day...I'll bet you have some stories to tell!

Thank you for the additional post regarding motor oil spec's for the VF500F. I have been running Honda GN4 paired with an OEM filter. I’ll take a look into switching to a synthetic for my next change. I was concerned about making the switch from a petroleum based to a synthetic oil but this does not seem to be an issue - so I'll give it a go. I'm happy to get a bit of extra protection for this vintage engine.

Thanks again...and the Skycrane...seriously...wow!

 

Thanks RC. I appreciate the post.

 

I hate the idea of adding to this thread but I'm going to anyway.

When I use to fly single engine aircraft the only oil the local mechanic would recomend was Rottela T. Being young I wanted to know why (early 90's) and he took me to the parts room pointed to a shelf of boxes and explained that there were two pilots (I knew them both at the time) that had maintained an all most TBO schedule since he had became an aircraft mechanic 20 years prior and that every time he overhauled their engines he kept the pistons from their engines to show them, he then kept them on a shelf, at first because he would forget to throw them out and later because he would show them to people who were going to have an overhaul. The skirts on the Shell engines looked great for the amount of hours they had the ones from the other engine using a different oil were all scuffed pretty good.

Later on I went to work at an oil distributor and noticed that any one buying for a fleet would pay more for Rotela, about 80% of the sales went to gas burning fleets. We listed the oil as "diesel" oil. The next time I saw a sales rep for Shell I asked what the deal was, he explained that it contained an additive that was better at suspending carbon and other contaminates better than other oils and with a good filter would stay "cleaner" longer than other oils (which explains why the piston skirts from the aircraft engines looked so different) . Sounded logical to me.

Since I have ran it in pretty much every 4 stroke engine I own (with the exception of my glow fuel rc plane engines, if they used crank case oil it would be in them as well). I have never had a problem with it in my 7.3 Ford for over 400k miles and the turbo has to be rough on it temp wise, it's been in my 82 v45 Magna since 93 (8700 miles when it started using it and 138k when I got tired of every thing falling out from around the perfect running engine and retired it to parts).

Is Amsoil better I believe so but never ran it enough to compare it, is purple better, maybe, has rotella kept all my engines alive, yep. I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night, I'm not an oil expert, just an old faker who loves first gen v 4's and still ride my 82 v45 Sabre and 83 VF500F.

 

To anyone suggesting this thread is a waste of valuable space and people's time... is there really ANYTHING of consequence here anyway? Nothing against this site, I love it! I'm just saying, this site is for people like us - dedicated to bashing Honda's new body designs and debating which oil is the best! In reality, we should all feel guilty for spending time talking about our bikes instead of riding them!!!

imo...

 

I used Blackstone labs once for my Grand Am.

Good people.

 

:bump: bumpity post whore :bump:

 

I (now) work for a railroad that has 5 in service MLW(alco) MR-420 locomotives using the 567E and F bocks, For those whom are not aware these are 1 to 2 Mega Watt(depending on current setup in th govenor) V-16 turbo desiel prime movers that see 1000+ hrs between oil changes and only if there is enough contamination from fuel to warrent it. We use Shell Rotella T as our tests have shown that less repairs are required due to changing to this oil. We have tried several different oils from different companies and Rotella has so far shown the best life for parts. If you want to look at it from the molecular shear factor, these things have approx 80 feet of shearing surfaces, 35 of which is in the piston walls and connecting rod small ends, dont forget the crank throws, main bearrings, drive gears, cam shafts (2x9ft long 5inches in dia), injector pumps (16 of these), oil pump, turbo bearings ( this turbo is 3ft in dia. shaft is 6inches thick), all the valve train and end seals. If these engines cant kill the oil then nothing Royal Pruple sales rep can say will disswade me from going rotella.

that said, my brother inlaw just amsol in his bike, rx-7, and his mercedes. thats what he choose after looking at the options and reading as much as he cared.
Each rider has to decide which oil, synth or dino, and how heavy for themselves. The only thing I would suggest is the use of Seafoam(the additive) if your almost about to drain your oil, its not meant to stay in the oil, and it helps remove the sludge stuck in the bottom of the engine. Warning, you oil filter will be plugged shortly (20-200kms) after adding Seafoam and Seafoam is the only additive that carries a "killed your engine" warrenty.

Remember Sales Reps always blow their own horn and will always provide "proof" that their product is the best. If it isnt backed up by Blackstone labs, then have them prove their data by submitting to Blackstone!

 

I can add a little something.

Up until a few years ago, Rotella T was actually at 1600 PPM ZDDP. Now it has dropped to about 1200 PPM ZDDP. The non-JASO MA stuff is down to about 800 PPM ZDDP.

Mind you that what I have seen says that Royal Purple and Amzoil sit at about 1300-1400 PPM. Rotella T or Chevron Delo 400 (not the LE) FTW!!!!!!

Jose

 

I would like to add my 2 cents worth on this!
I am a member of other bike forums and have found a lot of guys with older bikes swear by Rotella T 15 40 oil.
They have tried synthetic and semi synthetic and had variable results!
Some found the synthetic to be too "thin" and caused oil leaks becuase it was weeping past seals, also additional engine noise could be heard?!
By going back to normal oil - they found no oil leakage and less engine noise.

I only wish I liveed in the USA so that I could get some myself!
Apparently Walmart sells it quite cheap!

 

why, oh why could you not leave this thread dead.

Anyhow, at least people here are not just saying "oil is oil, buy the cheap stuff" but Rotella is designed for diesel engines. There is no added lubricant for the transmission, which could cause issues there. I'm just suggesting to use a motorcycle blend oil, because they are made to rev higher, whereas diesel engines if you hold it above 4 - 5k rpm, then something is wrong. Bikes run at that RPM all day. just my opinion, not scientific fact. I may be :crazy: for thinking that, but I too have always used the Honda oil, never had an issue, it's not cheap by any means, but it works for me, and after several thousand miles on 3 different bikes previous, never any issues. It's the oil I use for my bike, and the one I'll continue to use.

 

The Rotella that people speak of is JASO MA rated Keager.

It can be used on motorcycles without fear of grenading one's engine.

 

Ahem ....

It doesn't matter what country you are from, what language you speak or what label is on the bottle. JASO MA is JASO MA.

Rotella T (and Chevron Delo 400) has a JASO MA certification, so Honda says it is approved for your engine. Premium oil at a lower price is a YAY in my book.

I also would like to see lab results. What I would REALLY like to see is a direct comparison of Amzoil, Royal Purple and Rotella. THAT would put a WHOLE LOT of sales mumbo jumbo and internet grumblings to the test.

Hmmmmm..... maybe we should arrange a VFR World track day where people show up with about 1000 miles on their oil, we run em hard and then we send samples off for analysis. Anybody know what a test would cost?

Jose

 

Two things. That link points to a domain that is up for sale. Is Blackstone out of business?

I found a .pdf online, showing test results for Rotella and Honda HP4 semi-synthetic. The first results column is a Rotella T 15w-40 (dyno), the second column is averages, the third column is results from Honda HP4 10w-40 (semi-synth) and the last results column is from Rotella T6 5w-40 (synthetic).

Notice the ZDDP counts and that is as of August 2010, so I believe we are talking about the current production oils.

Jose