What should Honda do with the V4 next?

this question is stemming from the ongoing (now 12 page!) thread of who'd buy a new vfr1000 if given the chance. my question is not just that, but if you could have the vfr your way, what way would that be?

(a) continue the vfr as-is. a nice, mid-sized engined, sport touring machine

(b) punch out the V4 to 1000cc and put it on a frame comparable to the fireblade and give the world a competitive V4 literbike

(c) go balls out and build a 1300+cc V4, put it on a bigger, hypersport frame, and let honda come out with a V4 that will butt heads with the ZX-14 and hayabusa

(d) not worry about it, and wonder why the hell all these people are arguing about V4's anyways (yea, like that'll happen on THIS board)

 

Make it a Vtwin....Put BMW R12 ergos on it and keep her sex red....watch out Duccati!

 

I voted (a)

Some say the GSXR750 is redundant, if you want lighter go the 600 if you want more Power go the 1000 most say the 750 is just right.

By all means roll out a new design, add USD Forks, drop the VTec, increase the HP with enhanced injection and ECU. With the VFR Honda has held a unique area with the 800 very competent in all areas it needs to be yet not unwieldly in areas it doesnt.

Mind if they did bring out a completely new V4 1000 I wouldn't complain. arty2:

 

Not only would I like the VTEC gone I'd like to see a more curvy restyling. I know that sounds kinda superficial but those 6th generation bikes are just too sharp and severe looking for me.

That, and have more emphasis on SPORT than touring. Just make it comfortable enough to haul ass all day.

 

, you just :fish2: or :wacko: ?

 

First & foremost, keep the bike what it's been since 1990, the single best ALL AROUND bike money can buy. I don't need or want a race bike. If I did, it would be a race only bike with no lights or mirrors. I don't need or want a full touring bike. When I do, it will be something like a ST1300 or R1200ST. Only BMW offers a bike that is even remotely similar & that's the FS800T. Others may argue the FZ's from Yamaha are similar but they are I4's, don't have SSSA, etc & therefore suck.

If they are going to change the bike at all, I would like to see:

1) Bring back gear driven cams. They sound freaking sweet & lets face it, it's pretty cool to have a feature that is very rare.

2) Can VTEC work with gear driven cams? I honestly don't know. If it can, make it work seamlessly or get rid of it completely. Even though most people wont admit it (even if it's just because they refuse to agree with yours truely), they don't like the VTEC. In the few cases where I have ridden a 6th Gen, it always seemed like the VTEC kicked in at the exact wrong time.

3) Drop the weight to around 485lbs - 500lbs wet.

4) Put a fully adjustable suspension on it. I'm not asking for Ohlins race components here. If Honda wants a premium price for this bike, it needs to justify it by adding premium components. See #6 below.

5) PUT A NEW FREAKING WHEEL ON THE BACK!!! It's looked the same since 1994.

6) Make the hard bags STANDARD!!! $1000 for the same bags I can get from Givi for $600 it total crap.

7) I have no issues with the engine displacement. In fact, I like it. My bike has more than enough power for 95% of street situations. If they are going to bump up the power, I personally think 120HP is plenty.

8) They better damn sure keep it a V4 & SSSA or I will never buy a Honda again.

KC-10 FE out...
lane: :usa2:

 

I choose B, with a side of #8 from KC-10 FE.
In my opinion the weight is a good thing, it is what gives the bike that stable feel. More horses would be nice, but twenty more ft/lbs. of torque, who among us could say that wouldn't put a big grin on their face? A little more sport, a little more tour?

Mac

 

I like the idea of punching it out a bit but I think 900CCs woud be more than enough. I would like the weight dropped some.
I think KC is onto something with the fully adjustable suspsension.


The strange part about the gear driven cams was that Honda got rid of them to reduce weight only to add the weight back in other areas. I think if you want it lighter then honda will have to remove the swingarm and go more toward the 1000 style and reduce weight in the exhaust. Both add a lot of weight.

I like the VTEC, not sure I care so much about gear driven cams more thatn I care about weight.

 

3rd option should be done along with a hot rod version.

On my rant with the wish list is like KC great suspension is a must USD forks please with those binders off the CBR1000
Wet weight at 450-60lbs tops
130 hp to the ground.
Yep needs to have the SSSA, But at last look hmm, thats in question..
And keep the ergos of the 4th gen too.

 

You people need to get over it with the VTEC bashing. All versions of the VFR have their own great portions and issues. People who continue to bring up these differences and call them flaws or inferior need to get a freakin' life and get over it! If you have a problem with what I've said then you can eat :TOILET: We are all VFR riders and part a great community; except for a few bad apples who keep slinging this :bs:

 

I think keeping the displacement around 800cc is good. Maybe make it a true 800 or bring it into the mid 800s like an 848. I agree with some more adjustable suspension but it doesn't need to be Ohlins. Showa will work just fine. Radial brakes would be nice just to modernize the bike a bit. As for the swing arm, I think its a big part of the VFR now and I wouldn't want to give it up but a redesign on the wheel is overdue. KC you are right on with that. As far as vtec, I don't mind it and to tell you the truth I kinda like it. I think people just complain about it to complain about something and its usually from people who don't own or have only ridden one with vtec a few times. I know some people may have a legitimate dislike but I don't think this dislike is as widespread as some would lead us to believe. The big thing is price. What would we pay to get a larger displacement modernized bike with these changes? $12900 with 123hp 800cc+ V4, usd forks, ss swingarm with new lighter wheels, keep the exhaust under the tail but closer to the Ducati design, same type of ergos evolution of the design and a little less overall weight. Yeah I'd do that! Can I get an RWB with all the parts that are blue now in red with blue stripes and the white tank and fairing?

 

The VFR will never be made to compete with the CBR or ST. It is and should always be an all around performer. Therefore, I vote A.

 

Hey man, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Not just YOU, everyone. If I or anyone else doesn't like the footpegs, gas tank, brakes, tool kit, hand grips or VTEC on their bike or another bike, it's their business to say that.

If me not liking a feature that doesn't work very well & the manufacturer refuses to acknowledge or fix makes me an :asshat:, well I'll be the :asshat: then. Honda STILL has not acknowledged the electrical issues the VFR's have but it's still a problem, isn't it?

I seriously considered trading in my bike in 2001 when the 02's were released. The Honda dealers in my area don't allow test rides so I had to wait until someone I knew bought one & let me ride it. 3 items broke the deal for me. The VTEC, the added weight (meaning less performance) & styling were the 3 reasons I didn't get rid of my 5th Gen. I, because of the US Constitution, am allowed to have this opinion & freely speak it to the world. If you don't like it, that's what the "ignore" feature is for.

Have a nice day. :rapture:

I forgot my #9.

9) Put the big "VFR" decal back on the lower fairing. I'm not ashamed to have a VFR & I think having this bike is sorta special. So a large "VFR" decal is just what the doctor ordered. Even with the big decal on mine, I can't tell you how many times I've been to a restaurant or motorcycle meeting place where other SPORT BIKE riders (even HONDA riders) ask, "What's that you're riding?"

KC-10 FE out...
lane: :usa2:

 

The 800cc size seems perfect to me, especially considering the move to 800's in MotoGP. I'll always take more power, less weight and better suspension. The real question is $$$. The VFR is already an expensive bike for its class (I know the reasons are valid, but it's still true). To price it higher without bringing it to 1000cc or so could price it out of the market for a lot more people.

I wouldn't be surprised if a major obstacle to the gear driven cams is passing noise regulations around the world, so their day may truly be over. :frown:

 

If we're talking about the VFR, I'm all about keeping the engine around the same size. If they punch it out to a larger size, I hope they can somehow keep the weight about the same (or maybe less). I do think it would be cool to have the bike weigh less overall, but I wonder how much of that can be done without sacrificing what the VFR is.

Honestly the VTEC transition on my '06 is acceptable--it makes its presence known (especially in sound), but it isn't obnoxious. However any effort to refine it even more would be great. The VTEC transition on my Acura TL-S is literally unnoticeable (even in sound), and although it is an entirely different system, it would be nice to see something like that on the bikes.

Honda have a great opportunity to use their VTEC experience to help squeeze more overall performance out of a sub-liter size engine. And if properly executed, it would really befit the VFR since it has sort of turned into Honda's practical technology bike.

I do think that a Honda supersport equipped with a V4 or maybe an RC211 based V5 would be awesome.

 

The local Honda Tech says the VTEC is "better" on the mid cycle production 06's & up. Any truth to this?

KC-10 FE out...
lane: :usa2:

 

I believe that starting is '06, they lowered the engagement from 7000 rpm to 6400 rpm and smoothed out the transition. My '07 is butter smooth even when it kicks in mid-corner. I like the personality that the VTEC brings to the bike.

 

Refine, don't redesign

My wishlist:

1 - Bump engine size to 900 if it can be done without compromising weight and balance.
2 - Upside-down forks and more development on steering to eradicate some hands-off waggle.
3 - Keep V-TEC. Latest ECUs smooth out V-TEC transition. The thrust adds to the character
4 - Heated grips
5 - Modernise pannier set as existing set looks dated against the racy Gen. 6 lines.
6 - A bit more pillion padding.

That's about it.

 

There must be a huge variation from bike to bike as far as vtec engagement is concerned.
On my '02 the engagement is smooth and does not upset the bike at all....in fact,(for me),90% of the vtec sensation is just the sound.
If I were deaf I'll bet I could hardly notice exactly when it engages....power curve just ramps up way more in vtec territory.



Oh,yeah....I voted "B"