Carrying a Pillion How-To

Discussion in 'General VFR Discussions' started by VifferDude, Sep 15, 2008.

  1. VifferDude

    VifferDude New Member

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    Hi Guys & Gals,

    I've been riding now for five years. Spent two years on a CBR 250RR (boy racer). Had a two year break from riding due to a lack of funds. I've been riding my current Steel Steed, a '08 VFR 800 for about six months. I've clocked up 12 000 Klms in those six months along with three track days. Oh, and I've been riding dirt bikes since I was five. So the point I'm making is that I can ride reasonably well.

    BUT, I've never carried a pillion before. So I jumped in the deep end the other day and took my girlfriend for a ride. She was crapping her pants, and so was I. I just didn't tell her, didn't want to scare her anymore than she was. I was just sensable about it. I took it real slow so I wouldn't scare her, or have an accident.

    Everything went well, in fact it went REALLY well. She's bugging me to go riding again. I didn't have any major problems. Once the bike's moving it's really no different than riding solo, only there's a little more inertia.

    Now, what I really had trouble with was when I'm pulling up to the lights for example. At slow speed (less than 5 K/h) I find myself wobbling the handle bars from side to side. Like a kid learning to ride a push bike for the first time. It's worse under breaks. Is there some trick to stop this from happening?

    Plus any other pointers would be nice :D
     
  2. nitronorth

    nitronorth New Member

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    I do a ton of 2 up on mine....first thing is I drive totally diff with a passenger..much smoother starting and stopping and no sudden movements. My passenger does know that when i gear down to pass or whatever to hold on tighter, more tighter the more i gear down,cause she knows whats coming..:). Make her keep still back there when going slow, specially dead slow.have her let you know if she wants to stretch or move around. Always brace yourself for the passenger to slide up a bit on stops... I usually tell mine to just stay even with the bike, I will do the leaning, that way i get no surprises and i am used to one way. whatever you like works here, but keep it consistent. as for the slow wobble..its sometimes hard not to with the narrow bars, but practice will cure it over time..did for me.

    And the best thing you can do is weld up a backrest real fast so she can enjoy it back there.(easy) Mine wont get on without it, with it we can go all day!


    You were smart....always take it easy and never scare her or its over(if she is smart)
    The vfr is a way better 2 upper than people think..I found that out the hard way as usual...

    have fun!


    MOTORCYCLE SNOWCAT INDEX
     
  3. QuietGuy

    QuietGuy New Member

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    I do a heap of two-up riding as well. Whenever I take a "new" pillion, I tell them a couple of "rules". Not too many - I don't want to confuse them or scare them into thinking they might be doing something wrong... I reckon it helps reassure them that you know what you're doing. :smile: Stuff like:
    - "Lean with the bike and relax. (act like a sack of potatos)"
    - "Don't wriggle around when the bike is at low speed"
    - "I'll tap you on the knee if I am about to take off quickly"
    ...actually, that's about it.
    As for actual riding - the biggest piece of advice is - if you find yourself having to perform an emergency stop, you will probably "wear" your pillion. (i.e. they will slide forward into you as they won't be expecting the sudden slow-down). In this case brace yourself well with your knees and loose with your arms so that they don't end up causing you to "steer" the bike if your arm gets pushed forward.

    I once had someone apologise in advance saying: "I'm not a very good pillion".
    ... to which the cheeky reply should always be "That's ok, I'm not a very good rider!"
     
  4. Craig in Alabama

    Craig in Alabama New Member

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    riding with a passenger

    Ask your passenger to look to the left or right of your helmet when you're going through curves. For example, if you're going through a right-hander and they look inside to the right of your helmet, they will naturally lean with you and the bike. Plus it makes them feel like part of the equation. This has been the biggest help for me when I have a new passenger.
    Cheers!
    Craig :smile:
     
  5. Stranger

    Stranger New Member

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    Some great advice been put forward here. I have a rare breed, a wife that rides herself and pillions on the longer journeys, so I asked her about pillioning, the reply's are:

    Make sure there is cominucation before you get on the bike, simple signals like a tap on the left knee means you are going to go quicker = she will grip harder with knees and thighs.

    right knee = twisties = grip harder and put hands on tank.

    work them out as to what works for you.

    She said that it is vital to work out the mounting / dismounting routine every time the same way. She knows lots of ladies who have tumbled their men off the bike, especially on the dismount. Do the same things every time, then you both know what to do and expect.

    she also mentioned that she is actually uncomfortable when I try to ride "safely". Ride your usual ride as it is better to be in your comfort zone.

    Her pet hate is men who feel that they have to scare the girl to give them a thrill. Her words "those guy's are just arsholes"

    As for the slow speed wobbles, it is better to stop as you normally would albeit a bit less harsh on the brakes than to try and develop a whole new skill because you have a pillion. After a short while you will develop a synergy that works for you both.

    Don't fall into the "girl feels great lets whack it now" trap, just let it come naturally.
     
  6. Molsan

    Molsan New Member

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    Thats good advice, my wife has an issue with this as she does not like the bike leaning and even with explanation does not seem to lean with me and fights a bit. her inconsistency can be a bit odd in a corner especially at lower speed as she suddenly decides to lean or sit up.

    For advice.
    don't push it hard you have more mass and some of that mass may suddenly decide to move in an unexpected manner.

    for starting make sure bike is vertical and not at a slight angle or you will go slightly that way on take off. where as solo you can do it and only travel a few feet before upright.
     
  7. Stranger

    Stranger New Member

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    Practice makes perfect.
     

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  8. chris2711

    chris2711 New Member

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    I agree, properly informing your passenger on the does and don'ts makes it a lot easier on you and puts them at ease.

    I tell my wife when we ride to make herself a perminate fixture of the bike.

    Keep herself centered with the bike and do not counter lean.

    Look over my sholder in the direction I'm turning.

    Sit comfortably when cruising, hands on my waist or on the grab rails.

    When braking or agressive riding I tell her to lean forward and place her hands flat on the tank at the top of the tank pad making a diamond shape with her thumbs and index fingers. This helps keep her weight, what little there is, centered with me for better maneuverability and her hands on the tank helps brace against her sliding into me when stopping.
     
  9. VT Viffer

    VT Viffer New Member

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    I generally limit my aggressive riding when I am with my wife on the bike.

    She likes to ride, but tends to get a little sqirmy when the pace picks up or we start to lean over a bit more than she likes. Of course, the bike is fully capable of going faster and leaning over A LOT more, but I keep it in her "safe zone", not mine.

    Occasionally, I will set up my turn-in a little differently, so that I am forced to apex a corner differently and end up leaning over farther than neccessary. No speed increase over what would be a "normal" speed, mind you. This is just so that she knows that the cornering angles can be much more than I limit myself to when she is on the back. Kind of a "confidence in the bike thing" that I already know, but she doesn't yet. Generally, she will notice when I do this (i.e. a slight left swerve before entering a right hand turn), and knows to hang on a little tighter.

    She is a good pillion, however, she knows how to follow the motion and inertia of the bike very well. I agree that the dismounting needs to be the identical routine to eliminate the chance of the pillion dumping the bike and the rider.

    Our routine is that she will wait until we are at full stop, and both my feet are planted. She will then hop off, always to the right. By knowing this seemingly simple routine, surprises are never going to happen. Mounting the bike is also similar, she knows to wait until I tell her I'm ready before getting on.
     
  10. S14Daver

    S14Daver New Member

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    ^These guys have it covered...My gf is loving my new to me VFR maybe as much as I am haha.
     
  11. Mike13

    Mike13 New Member

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    I think this has been some very good advise as I have just started to ride 2up as well. Awsome. Dont know if it off the subject but since we are talking 2up riding.. is there any suspension changes I should consider? I have a 4th gen and I have noticed when riding 2up that there is obviosly less weight on the front, and lights at night seem to be blinding oncomming traffic. Did not know if there was any changes I should make?
     
  12. Hotbrakes

    Hotbrakes New Member

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    The best advice that I can give is something I recently learned after carrying passengers for years- have them squeeze you with there legs to hold themselves in place. Likewise you should be doing the same to the tank with your legs. It takes a while to get used to, but there is much more control and stability to be had when the weight is supported down low making a much smoother and less fatiguing ride for both. At the end of the day the only thing hurting should be a burn in your inner thigh from squeezing. Then you have a reason to go stretch eachother's thighs afterwards. :ncb:

    Mike1313- having your suspension preload adjusted properly will greatly increase the comfort as well. If your bike is set up for you already and you aren't transporting livestock to the market, probably a couple clicks stiffer on the rear shock would do it. It only takes a minute to do as well. You may want to be subtle about it as some women could be offended when you have to stiffen the suspension for their weight. :drama:
     
  13. Mike13

    Mike13 New Member

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    I will try that and mess with it a little to see if I notice any differance. As far as weight goes, we are good. I'm 160, she is 125. :strong:
     
  14. chickwebb

    chickwebb New Member

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    +1 on the mount/dismount routine, as that's an easy (and potentially expensive) ooops! When I take my kids out, I have them get on/off only after I tell them, always on the left side, and I always leave/put the sidestand down beforehand, in order to minimize the risk of a tip-over. I still support the bike with both feet, but I can't quite flat-foot it, so having the sidestand down is a good bit of insurance.

    No moving around at slow speeds or while stopped without clearing it with me first. If the place that we're stopped (side of the road, stoplight, etc.) is a bit off-camber that's another disaster waiting to happen. One sudden downhill shift and it could be all over. :eek:

    Other than that, just look through the turns, hands on my thighs in the twisties, squeeze with ur knees when braking, SMILE (dammit!), and wave to the other bikes (even the HDs).
     
  15. masonv45

    masonv45 New Member

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    Another method that works for me is to change my mindset to pretend I'm riding in the rain =

    No hard starts or stops
    No big lean angles

    SMOOOOOOOTH! is the key....
     
  16. chris2711

    chris2711 New Member

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    There's always having her sit cowgirl:ncb::ncb:
     

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  17. hondawolf

    hondawolf New Member

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    Looks like everyone has cover this well. About 30% of my riding is two-up. Just making sure to start slowing down sooner. Sometimes I'll tap my g/f hands, so she knows I'm going to pass or speed up. Making sure she stays still on the bike, and doesn't move around much, especially in a turn. She always mounts/dismounts on the left side of the bike. Takes practice and time, but before you know it, you'll forget she's even on there.
     
  18. derstuka

    derstuka Lord of the Wankers Staff Member

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    Well, I carry a "pillion" everywhere I go, and so does everybody else who owns a VFR! Pillion = passenger seat, seat for a lady! I think you are asking if anyone has ever carried a passenger on their pillion!

    "Pillion"
    1. a pad or cushion attached behind a saddle, esp. as a seat for a woman.
    2. a pad, cushion, saddle, or the like, used as a passenger seat on a bicycle, motor scooter, etc.
    3. a passenger's saddle or seat behind the driver's seat on a motorcycle.


    Hahaha...I had to be a smart :ass: that is because I talk out of my :ass: about 90% of the time, and I have gotten quite good at it! :bs:

    I do carry a passenger though. I don't really enjoy it as much, because it just makes the bike handle slow, among other things. Like others have mentioned....smooooooooooooth and flooooooow are the key words! Have her flow with you and the bike. You can have her put her hands on the tank as you slow down to get weight off of your back as well. My gf gets too relaxed, and I am afraid she is gonna fall off!
     
  19. sussi

    sussi New Member

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    If you get her love when you get home you are on the right track, if not you must improof your riding.
     
  20. Spectre

    Spectre New Member

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    Two online articles you may find helpful: (1) Take a Friend Motorcycle Riding (2)TIPS FOR THE MOTORCYCLE PASSENGER

    Some ideas worth emphasizing for the first-time passenger (I'm assuming here that the rider has some experience with 2-up riding):

    1) Before taking a first-time passenger for a ride, explain the correct method for a passenger to mount and dismount the motorcycle, and then practice doing this, over and over, while the bike is stationary and the engine is off. The co-rider should know that they're not to mount the bike until the rider is ready, he has the hand brake applied, he has firm control of the motorcycle with both feet planted, and he's well prepared and strong enough to maintain firm control and balance of the bike as the co-rider mounts and dismounts. The co-rider does not mount or dismount until the rider gives the "OK" nod.

    When mounting, I think it's best to teach the co-rider to always first place the ball of their left foot on the left rear peg. Then, once they've placed their right arm around the rider's right waist, they gently begin to raise themselves up with their left leg while simultaneously swinging their right leg up and over the saddle. Once their right leg is clear of the saddle (as well any backrest or rear topcase) they then settle their butt onto the rear seat, all in one fluid motion. (Again, first practice in the garage, or wherever.) Once the passenger is seated, they then must place the ball of their right foot on the right peg. They're now basically on the bike, but they will most likely want to wiggle and move about a bit, maybe even standing up a bit on both rear pegs in order to find the most comfortable position and then settle back down on the back of the motorcycle.

    At this point, the rider should verify that their co-rider is comfortable and feels ready to begin riding. (Some things to ask about before riding: Did they empty their bladder, etc. beforehand? Is their helmet's chin strap secured and not too loose or tight? Are the lower legs of their riding pants zipped up? Do they have their riding gloves on, etc.)

    2) Riding gear: After practicing the correct mounting/dismounting methods in the garage, at some point it might be a good idea for both rider and co-rider to suit up in full gear, including pants, jackets, gloves, boots, helmets, eyewear/sunglasses, earplugs, etc. (ATGATT--all the gear, all the time.")

    Practicing stationary exercises with full gear will begin to teach the first time co-rider (who's committed to safe riding) that it may at first feel a bit more cumbersome to mount/dismount, look down, speak and be heard, etc. while wearing full gear, particularly while wearing a full-face or even a modular flip-face helmet.

    3) Suspension Settings: For those riders who are new to riding 2-up, I think it's a good idea to first know the approximate weight of your co-rider (including full gear) so that you may factor and adjust your bike's suspension (rear suspension in particular) as well as tire pressures. Otherwise, you may not realize that the bike is overloaded until you find that it's wallowing and handling like a dangerous pig because you forgot to take these parameters into account.

    Along these same lines, it may be a very good idea to first remove any un-needed weight from the bike such as side-cases, a heavy top-case, a heavy tank bag, etc. Moreover, why not do yourself a favor by planning a short trip with a half-tank of fuel in order to further reduce top-weight if it's your first time riding 2-up?).

    I also think it's a good idea to also first explain helmet "turtle kissing" (and how to best avoid it) in which the front of the co-rider's helmet may bump against the rear of the rider's helmet, resulting in a somewhat unpleasant and potentially startling clunk, unless steps are learned to avoid this during quick stops, etc.

    And speaking of helmets, if a co-rider isn't accustomed to wearing a good quality motorcycle helmet (which may feel very constricting at first), it's often a good idea to first make sure they've chosen a helmet that's properly and snugly fitted to the shape of their head. Take a moment to teach the first-time co-rider how to properly put on, adjust, and snug-down the chinstrap. (The Nolan N102 modular helmet features an effortless quick-lock/quick-release chin strap that new riders will really appreciate. It can be operated with riding gloves on.)

    Also, why not take a moment to inspect the first-time rider's helmet and face once their helmet is on. Teach them to tuck and shove any loose strands of their hair well up under the padding surrounding their face, so that said strands of hair won't soon begin flapping into their eyes and tickling their face as they begin riding at higher speeds and wind is swirling through their helmet.

    4) Before taking a new co-rider out for the first time, I explain that motorcycles turn by leaning, but when riding 2-up, the co-rider should remain relatively upright and relaxed while allowing the rider to gently lean the bike through the wide and non-intimidating turns which the rider has first carefully chosen during the first of many introductory rides. Where the rider's head looks, the co-rider's head should also look. The co-rider should keep their chin up and look through the turns just as the rider does.

    5) Those who are new co-riders may initially have a tendency to become mesmerized and lulled by the scenery and the sensations of riding, which in turn may cause them to space-out and not pay attention to the moment-to-moment changes in the road ahead. Safe 2-up riding is a collaborative adventure and a team effort. It's a good idea for the co-rider to maintain their attention.

    6) I view any co-rider as precious cargo. When they choose to ride with me, they're putting their lives into my care, I alone am responsible, and this is an awesome responsibility. No one gets on the back of my bike unless they are willing to wear full riding gear and practice.

    7) Practice: In my humble opinion, most any rider who has not yet mastered the art of smoothly and confidently executing a sharp 90 degree turn from a dead-stop, on a fairly steep incline, in traffic, should probably think twice about attempting to take on a co-rider for the first time. When taking on the weight of a co-rider, it's pretty easy to feel in control and to develop a sense of "hey, I've got this down, no problems!" while one is riding on the open road. It's quite another feat to keep the bike well balanced and ride smoothly with the added weight of a co-rider when you're faced with lots of 90 degree turns from either a dead-stop, or at slow speeds. Just as with riding solo, us newer riders are most likely to encounter problems here, let alone having a co-rider on the back. This is when we're most likely to drop the bike, wherein the most common mistake will be to stall the engine in the process of simultaneously releasing the clutch and applying throttle while in 1st gear; or while trying to execute a low-speed, rolling 90 degree turn. (Been there, done that.)....

    8) How to deal with shakey/wobbly 90 degree turns (especially when starting out on an incline) with a co-rider on the back of the bike??: I've found that the solution to this malady is to return to the basics of the Basic Rider Course: When starting out and taking off from such nasty inclines and acute angles, don't look down!! Keep your chin up; look far into where you want the bike to go; smoothly release the clutch from 1st gear while first rolling on lots of throttle. Really rev up the RPM's a bit before you begin smoothly releasing the clutch, and then keep the revs up as the engine begins to grunt down under the load. The more the engine sounds like it might be lugging under the load, the more smoothly but assertively you wanna roll on the throttle in order to avoid stalling the 800cc engine, and/or dumping the clutch. Once you master this, the bike will prance right along through these nasty turns. I'm finding that the trick is to keep revs up, eyes up, both feet on the pegs (resist the urge to "paddle" with your feet), and the bike will do the right things. The VFR has an 800cc engine. Unlike (for example) the BMW K1200GT's massive 1200cc engine, the Viffer's engine lacks strong torque at low RPM's. It doesn't much tolerate being lugged, but if you keep the revs up while releasing the clutch and biting into the VFR's powerband, it will pull like a mule.

    9) Rider-to-passenger communications: If you get tired of not being able to effortlessly talk with one another, consider investing in Autocom's SuperPro AVi kit.
     
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