Chain 101

After a bit of WTH with RK, they sent me a new upgraded chain pro-rated, which ended up being less than half the cost of a new one, Not to bad better than a sharp stick you know where.. :wink: So thought I'd do a sorta set by step how the chain install went.

First the new chain arrives Woo Hoo!



Now to get to the counter shaft sprocket, it's been a tad over 11K since it's been off last. Gee looking what I see. Yuk! talk about yea the chain is shot.



Blue X marks the spot, time to get cutting, or in this case I'm grinding the tops off the rivets to punch out.





That was easy, after a couple taps the old master pops out. Good to see there's still lube in the pins, so at least I did good installing the last one, can't say that for the rest of the chain. Notice the kinks.



Now that the old one is out thought I'd compare em, Wow talk about a difference, and to think my last chain was not even 2 years old. I Like the way the new one looks :wink:



I better mention I needed to take 4 links out of the new chain as in most cases they come with 116 links and VFRs take 112 links

Now here's the $120 dollar item that makes the chain job a snap. RK chain press. :smile:



Next to line up and pre press the side plates into position. Doh! don't forget the O-rings! :wink:



Then press in the roll on the rivet.



Wa-La there it is all done. Well almost



And now for a quick final adjustment.



All is good and back together, next or first stop will be at a dealer or shop that sells what RK recommend for chain lube. We had a chat about what I used and all and even thou they agree the Chain wax is great, it doesn't have the penetrating properties that's necessary to get past the O-Rings , So they say. He suggested I use Maxima chain lube instead on the side link plates and use the wax on the rollers. He also said WD 40 is great for cleaning, which just confirms I knew what I was talking about. Now the real test will be the next XX,XXX miles

 

Looks like you beat the shiat out of the last one without too much detriment to OEM sprockets.
Overtight?

Hope your new one doesn't sling it's lube like the last one. Watch the tension!

 

Nope sprockets where way okay, I have a new counter shaft on hand and they miced out to be the same. so I left the old one on. You know that was one of the topics I talked over with the RK dude. and that's a Nope, never over tight, less this last outing as it got very hot telling me the pins where dried out and in urn it got very tight so sorta self destructed. that and you should see the side slop with the old chain talk about yea it's shot all right even thou a good cleaning would say different. I'm at odds with this happening, only thing we came up with was my use of Chain wax as the main lube and I agreed it might have played into this as I'm a chain watcher making sure it's as right as it can be as one can't get in the pins, so?? Yea it's a weird one.

 

Wow, what a difference wouldn't think it would have been that noticeable, but a slight buzz is gone and it feels like I'm riding on air, funny what you get use to over a period of time.
I feel better now.

 

cool pics!..one thing i do love about my 00 is the fact i can do it all on the bench and then just put it on in one piece..Never had a bike before I could do that without pulling the pivot bolt..

 

I'm not trying to be a turd in your puch bowl, but when the chain on my '95 is adjusted to the slack I think is proper, it dips closer to the plastic contact plate on top of the swing arm than yours, exactly as pictured on the center stand.
I'm guessing you're still on the too snug side.
I do like the appearence of that RK vs. your former one. I have the one with the larger plates, like the one you removed. I have just over 4K miles on mine. Guess I should keep an eye on her, looking for the same dry roller and pin rust issue.

 

From my eye that chain looks way too tight -banjo tight. I like to run my chains a little on the loose side rather than the tight side anyhow. In my experience most people tighten their chains too tight. This causes more than just chain wear. Having to replace countershaft bearings and seals is a real PITA.

I'm an electrician and we see this same phenomena on electric motors. Grease monkeys change belts and tension them so damn tight that they end up ruining the motor. They might save a few dollars on belts, but end up spending HUNDREDS or even THOUSANDS on new motors and the labor to change them. Some Engineer spends thousands on VFD's (Variable Frequency Drives) just to stop rapid starts and belt slip and gaurantee that a motor lasts forever and some Grease Monkey slaps on a new belt because soem outdated chart tells him it is "time" and within a few months the motor goes bad because the belt was 5x tighter than it should have been.

Motorcycle chains kept too tight cause the same issues. Often the tightest spot of the chain is NOT when it is on the centerstand. If you have it "tight" there it will be even TIGHTER at that point where the chain is tightest.

Bad JuJu.

Plus, chains and sprockets should ALWAYS be replace as a set. ALWAYS.

Did I say ALWAYS? That's because it is true ope2: It's written in the 11 commandments, but they always drop that 11th one!

 

LOL yea yea I know chain and sprockets, I might do that, But I wanted to ride, plus after I took a micrometer to them there wasn't enough wear to justified it this time, but is a rule I normally follow, that said these sprockets have the same millage as the last chain just a tad over 11K so would like to believe they are good for a few more miles, and yea I know there's always a chance the old sprockets might, and I say might in this case, set up premature wear, but I have a keen eye.
Love your guys comments, always good to hear, but I'm also a chain watcher that and this being my 4th VFR I think I know a thing or two, and this one just didn't cut the mustard plus I've been riding a lonnnnng time, I know what a tight chain is and this wasn't one of them. On center stand, it's +1" slop, on the ground it's 3/4" plus, I know about the chain gets tighter once on the ground then there's the pay load part as well. but still believe it was the chain lube not penetrating down in, so we'll see. Don'ts ya love experiments

 

I'm not a fan of that "chain wax" stuff at all. Chain lube is a misnomer as far as O-ring (or X-ring if you want to get fancy) chains go. The outside of the chain really doesn't need to be "lubed" other than to repel rust (probably not an issue in your dry state) and the inside bearing pins of the chain are permanently lubed behind the O-rings (or X-rings).

What the problem is on these O-ring chains is that the O-rings themselves begin to dry up and their motion heats them up and burns them up once they get dry. Chain lube is meant solely (other than keep cosmetic rust off of the outside) to keep the O-rings lubricated so that they can continue to do their job of keeping the factory grease INSIDE the bearing pins.

Once the O-rings fail, the chain is going to fail soon thereafter. It's that grease packed at the factory that keeps the chain from wearing out its bearing pins and without that they are not going to last very long. That internal grease doesn't have a chance once the O-rings fail. It's outie!

One other thing that kills the grease in chains is WD-40 or other similar penitrating "oils" (they are NOT a lubricant). WD-40 is so thin that it can creep down THROUGH the O-rings and dissolve the grease inside and contaminate it. It gets thinner and is likely to fling right back out the O-rings -especially if they are starting to get iffy. Use WD-40 enough and it will dry out your chain in a hurry.

Back to the chain "wax." I don't think that this stuff does a good job of protecting and lubricating the O-rings and keeping them "wet." Cosmetically it makes the chain "look" much nicer and cleaner, but in reality how "clean" a chain is has nothign to do with how good it is. I'd rather have a chain with nice wet O-rings than one that is all waxy and pretty looking but the O-rings are all gummed up and dry. Plus that wax tends to attract dust worse than chain oils and unlike the oils, it won't fling out, it just stays there soaking up any oils in the O-ring rubber making it even drier and acting like an abrasive.

That's just my $.02 worth of about 35 years of riding and racing both off-road and on. I learned the hard way (more than once) that putting on a new chain on used sprockets is just a quick way of wearing out new chains -even if they "look" good. If your chain was bad enough to be creeping up the sprockets then they have damaged the sprockets while doing so. Since you got the chain cheap, I guess it is a good experiment. I like to get at least 30K out of my chains/sprocket sets.

I tend to do a light chain oil spray only on the O-rings after each long ride before putting the bike to bed and allowing it to soak in. It's worked so far from me. I'm cheap. I don't like to spend any more money than I have to. Sprockets are cheap compared to chains so I can't abide by throwing anything but a cheap non-O-ring chain on a pair of USED sprockets, and only if you are on the road and can't find sprockets cheap. Plan on replacing the set when you get home too with a good all-in-one set. When you buy the set they sell you the sprockets for about $20-30 more than just buying a chain. It seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

As for chain lube : I know that o-ring chains are lubed between the pin and bushing at the factory and that the o-ring keeps this lube inside where it belongs. The problem is that lubrication is also needed between the bushings and sprocket teeth and between the chain side plates and the solid links. Wax doesnt have the film strength to adequetly do the job. WD40 doesnt have the strength either although it does make a good cleaner to remove the old grease and dirt prior to re lubing the chain.

What I've found best for the job are the spray on lubes that go on thin and then quickly thicken to a consistiency that resists being thrown off when riding the bike. After applying them I wipe off the excess where it's not needed and I'm good to go. The chain looks like new and is properly protected for the next 500 - 1,000 miles. All told the entire process (cleaning, lubing, and checking for proper slack) takes 20 - 30 minutes and as a bonus you usually check out other things like tire wear, wheel trueness, sprocket wear etc..

 

I'm not so sure that lubrication is necessary between the rotating bushings and the sprocket teeth. They don't and shouldn't move against each other besides mating and un-mating. Since they roll, the actual friction between them is minimal. And since there are literally thousands if not tens of thousands PSI of force between the roller and the sprocket teeth I don't think ANY lube is going to stay there very long regardless of its film strength. It's a dry bearing surface, or at least will be that way after a dozen miles or so of constant heat and pressure between the rotating bushings and the sprocket teeth.

I just can't believe that there is any long-term lubrication between these two points in the long run.

Sprocket rollers never really wear until AFTER the pins inside are shot. And then only after the "stretched" (chains don't <i>really</i> stretch) links no longer fit correctly into the teeth an then start forcing their longer aspects onto the teeth dimensions, causing wear.

That's why putting sprockets that are even the tiniest bit wore on with a new chain will cause issues. This tooth/link fit must be exact because there IS NO LUBRICATION between these pieces to speak of. if the fit isn't exact then there will be wear until they do match. And THAT is bad.

 

Nice write up. Thanks for the jay.

I will be sure to bring you buy a case of beer, when I need to borrow your chain press. hahahah

 

Serinity, spot on. Yea I too know all to well about new sprockets with chains but for some reason this time around is different, believe me I'm sorta at odds not that it's a really a big deal but at the time I had all ready made up my mind after a used a micrometer on the sprockets to make sure, as they only have 11k on em and really show no wear what so ever, so thought I'd take the gamble and see what happens. Though you do make a good point that's back at me thinking Hmmm. is it really worth it? think I'll call my good friends at Service Honda for a quote on sprockets, if it's with in reason I'll jump on em. thanks for the nudge, just one of those weird moments in should I or not. :wink:

 

Beer? I'm hooked on Hard lemon aid now.

 

LOL and FWIW, after a sleepless night of wondering, no not worrying, I went a head and ordered new OEM sprockets. Just me being more annal than usual. On an interesting note, the local dealer beat out Service Honda, Go figure.

 

Maybe I should call RK as I am getting some tight spots in mine and not liking it very much. Chain is only 1 year old. How much trouble did you have to go through? Fax receipt or send back old chain?

 

Actually it was pretty straight forward. Get a hold of Travis at RK America @ 1-760-732-3161 LOL and tell em Jay sent ya and you're from here too, That'll get his attention.

BTW, It got the better of me, so yesterday I put on new OEM sprockets.

 

Hey, RVFR. How is the new chain lasting? I'm asking because the RK X-ring chain on my SV650 just died after about 7K. The failure mode sounds like the same one you had in your other post on this issue, as in rust on the side plates, binding pins, etc. This is the first time I have tried the X-ring, and I'm wondering if there is some sort of problem RK isn't talking about.

As I've mentioned in previous posts, I'm a bit fanatical about lubing every 500-600 miles, and keeping the adjustment where it needs to be. I have NEVER had a chain do this before.

 

Looking for some advice here. I have a Ninja 500R that I have been doing basic maintenance on. Oil, filters, chain clean/lube. I have a friend that had been in the motorcycle business for many years and used his advice for cleaning/lubing. Cleaning was to use WD40, sprayed on the rag then used on the chain. He says the propellant is the bad thing for the o-rings and as long as it doesn't get to them, your gtg. Lubing was just a can of Maxima Chain Wax. It sounds like most of the posters here don't agree with using the wax on the chain, so, what do you use? Also, is he wrong about the WD40? Inquiring minds want to know, or, at least mine does.

I really want to make sure that my brand new VFR is given as good of care as I can afford, and the cheap stuff is going to be the easiest.

Mike

 

Excellent write up - great info and feedback. Thanks all. Just what I needed.

so......why does it matter when?