Clutch seizing up overnight

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by ride, Sep 8, 2008.

  1. ride

    ride New Member

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    I recently replaced the stock clutch friction plates in my '90 VFR with an EBC set, and have been having issues with it seizing-up overnight. When I first replaced the clutch, all was well. But since then, it seems to sieze up overnight so that when I start the bike the next day and put it in first, the bike lunges forward before the engine breaks free from the transmission. It has gotten so bad that for the first time I put it in gear, the bike stalls as if I popped the clutch. Then I began starting the bike in gear, clutch pulled in, and both braked on hard. The bike still tries to lurch forward, and I hear the starter trying to turn over the engine until it "breaks" the engine and tranny free with a loud click, and then starts normally. It gets so much worse every morning, I don't think I'll be able to get the bike into gear tomorrow!
    Anyone else experience anything like this, or have any thoughts?
    BTW - I use Motul semi-synthetic motorcycle specific oil.
     
  2. derstuka

    derstuka Lord of the Wankers Staff Member

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    Obviously sounds like your clutch is not disengaging.

    Did you soak the new friction plates in oil before you installed them? If you didn't me thinks they might be toast already. Did you check the drive(steel) plates for wear/warping? I cannot recall if your year bike has an hydraulic clutch, but if so, did you bleed it?
     
  3. VT Viffer

    VT Viffer New Member

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    Did you replace the clutch basket springs as well? If so, did you get the correct ones?

    How many friction discs did you install? I know that sometimes a clutch kit will come with mors friction discs that necessary for a specific bike, so that it can be used for multiple applications across a brand that will need more friction discs.

    For example - my '82 Yamaha needed 6 clutch discs, the Vesrah kit came with 9 - I had 3 new spares after the swap...:unsure:

    Also, looking at the parts fiche - there are supposed to be 9 clutch friction discs on the 1990-1997 VFR750, but the LAST disc (closest to the motor) is a different part #... Maybe this is the problem?

    Discs 1-8: DISK, CLUTCH FRICTION: 22201-KG0-980
    Disc 9:DISK B, CLUTCH FRICTION: 22202-ML4-611
     
  4. ride

    ride New Member

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    Yeah...the first disc is smaller than the others, and is the first to get installed. I did soak the plates in oil, but I didn't count how many plates I installed. And yes, new springs as well. The bike only has 27,000kms (16,875 miles), so the original clutch wasn't necessarily bad, it just wasn't all that smooth. The basket and metal plates were all in great shape. I made sure I put the metal plates on the same way they came off (with the sharp edges all facing the same way).
    I think I might take it all apart again and see what's going on. Any other suggestions welcomed!
    Thanks
    Ken
     
  5. eddievalleytrailer

    eddievalleytrailer Member

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    How does the lever feel? Does it feel different when the clutch is stuck?
     
  6. ride

    ride New Member

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    No. Everything feel just right. Actually, once the clutch is "unstuck", the bike runs like a top. At least until the next morning.....
     
  7. drewl

    drewl Insider

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    I am wondering about the lever and cable, too. If it sits overnight, it could be giving the mechanism a chance to 'settle' into the engaged position or temperature changes could be affecting the position of things. Have you tried starting it and letting it run for a few minutes before attempting to engage the clutch?

    just an idea
     
  8. ride

    ride New Member

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    I always let the bike idle for about 5 mins before riding. Maybe I'll try for longer. I'll definitely pull it apart this weekend too. Hopefully the issue will be obvious. I'll post back with anything I find.
     
  9. Neptune

    Neptune New Member

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    How did you go in finding the issue?

    I've just recently done this myself using the EBC set with new springs. I didn't have the same issue but I made sure I soaked the plates for at least 15 mins in oil and the plate that is different to the others was installed first.

    Xheers
     
  10. VT Viffer

    VT Viffer New Member

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    No cable - it's a 1990, so the system is hydraulic.
     
  11. ride

    ride New Member

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    I finally got my clutch plates out, and everything looked fine. (If anything, the bike was a little low on oil). So, I re-soaked the plates for 3 hours, and then re-installed, put in new oil, and it was fine at first. But, now again it locks up overnight. Not sure what it is. But now before I start the bike, I put it in neutral and then rock it back and forth until it breaks free. Then when I start the bike I can put it in gear without it lurching forward. I think next spring I'll go back to factory Honda plates.
     
  12. 15dollar

    15dollar New Member

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    Start the bike in neutral and work the clutch a few times before putting it in 1st. If the clutch works well after riding a few minutes you should be just fine.
     
  13. ride

    ride New Member

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    I tried that. But it just won't break free unless there's a good amount of force. When I'm rocking the bike back and forth to free it up, I have to do it 2nd or 3rd gear. If I do it in 1st, the engine just turns with the transmission. But like I've said, once it's free, it runs like a top.
     
  14. eddievalleytrailer

    eddievalleytrailer Member

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    When you had it apart, how did the basket look? Did it have any grooves worn in it?
     
  15. ride

    ride New Member

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    I didn't look that closely at the basket. The original clutch was fine (although not very smooth in engaging which is why I decided to change it out). I think when I do my next oil change I'll take the clutch out again, and look more closely at the basket. Could this cause the clutch to seize up, but then run fine once it's free?
     
  16. Lgn001

    Lgn001 Member

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    Did you rough up the metal plates with some fine grit sandpaper, or use them as-is? It might be worth roughing up the surfaces a bit with some 400 or 600 grit sandpaper to see if that cures the problem. I would probably lightly hit the friction discs at this point, too, if I had to take it apart anyway.

    My reasoning is that if the metal plates (as well as the new friction plates) are really smooth, the static friction that is being developed overnight due to the constant spring pressure forcing the excess oil away from the surfaces might be the issue. If there are "peaks and valleys", for lack of a better term, the shear strength of the oil film should be reduced.
     
  17. VT Viffer

    VT Viffer New Member

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    ^^^ Good call - I think you're onto something...
     
  18. ride

    ride New Member

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    Hmmm...I'll try that. Not too sure when I'm going to have the chance, but I'll post when I do. Are you sure that scuffing the metal plates is safe to do? They have a factory finish if very fine dimples. Maybe I'll just do the friction plates first....I would hate to have to replace the metal plates too....
     
  19. kia001

    kia001 New Member

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    Don't scuff the plates if they are not burned/burnished. Sounds like there are some plates which are not disengaging fully. Check for warpage of BOTH types of plates and then check the inner hub grooves and the outer basket slots for wear, if there are signs of grooving, then the respective plates will hang up, causing "drag"
     
  20. Lgn001

    Lgn001 Member

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    I would suspect that the little bit of scuffing you could do with some abrasive paper is nothing compared to what they go through on a daily basis. Most clutches, of any kind, only start slipping because they have lost friction material and the spring package cannot compensate, or there is a glaze on the surface of the friction disc(s) and possibly the driving surfaces(s).

    But I do understand your reluctance. It seems wrong to intentionally scratch an internal engine part. However, just as a basis for comparison, have you ever seen a new brake rotor? They are intentionally finished that way so that the pads and the metal can form themselves to each other.

    If you were just to scuff the friction discs, it might eliminate the immediate problem. I would do all of the surfaces just because I had it apart. I'm kinda lazy that way, although I like to think that I am being efficient... :smile:

    And again, all you want to do is scuff the surfaces, not re-invent them.
     
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