What's Up In Motorcycling These Days?

Is it just me or has the ENTIRE motorcycle industry lost it's mind? This rant is about street motorcycles only. I hurt myself when I ride in dirt so I don't ride in dirt.

Honda had without doubt dropped the ball and is playing second fiddle in EVERY catagory they make bikes in. Other than the Goldwing can anyone think of a single bike that Honda makes that's "Best In Class"?

Suzuki Kawasaki make the FUGLIEST bikes on the market but can't keep them on the showroom floor.

Yamaha could give a crap about anything other than "Star" motorcycles.

Harley D sucks, always has, always will. After more than 100 years, they still don't make a motorcycle that any real motorcyclist would consider buying. 99.9% of their buyers are buying a name.

Victory should be kicking HD's ass all over the map but can't keep up with the manufacturing juggernaut that HD is. It's a shame really, every bike Victory makes is better than the equivalent HD.

Ducati makes awesome bikes but they are underpowered (mostly) & too much $$$.

Aprillia makes bad ass bikes but try to find a dealer to buy one at.

In the end, is it just me or is BMW the ONLY company that seems to be making an effort to cover the entire spectrum? Sure you can find a better sport bike but can you find one that comes with a 3 year unlimited mileage warranty? Sure the Goldwing is a better touring bike but look at the range of accessories that BMW offers. They have a complete range of models from a dirt single to an Uber Touring bike.

I never thought I'd see the day when I stopped thinking Honda rules. That day has come. IMO, Honda is no longer the top dog. It was steel cage match but BMW has quietly made Honda to look like a second rate company. When the time comes to buy the wife a new bike, it's almost guaranteed to be the new FS800S.

I offer the following to Honda:

1. Make a new Hawk GT. Suzuki & Ducati have it too easy with the SV & Monster. Make it fuel injected & single sided swing arm & no more than 650cc's. PRESTO!!! Best selling "beginner's" bike on the market. Again. Just like it was in 1988-1991.

2. Forget the chase for the best race rocket. Suzuki will always be in your face so why bother? The CBR's were never about race track skills until about 5 years ago. Make them awesome street bikes.

3. Get to work on a new VFR, new from the ground up. It damn sure better have a V4 & a SSSA. I could live with the "World's Smallest 800CC V8" but I'm not holding my breath. Wouldn't a 800cc V8 be freaking bad ass? Make it 475lbs WET, 125HP, new wheels, no VTEC (or sort out the VTEC issue), fully adjustable suspension & priced the same as it is now. Watch the sport touring market come pouring back in from Triumph.

4. Either make the VTX's competitive or quit making them. EVERY company, Except HD, makes a better cruiser now.

Why do I think I'm ranting to myself? This is what happens when you post whilst drunk.

KC-10 FE out...
lane:

 

why does people always think they are smarter than the corporate types who've been running a successful company for decades? Especially when they are drunk?

Since you dislike Honda so much, maybe you should go buy a BMW and bitch on their forums.

 

It's not just you KC..that thinks that. Thou Honda does still make the best for the dollar it's more of a point in that no one knows that they still make damn good bikes. Like I read some where, that they're so good, they're boring..

 

Jeez you'rea bit tough on ol Yamaha, as far as looks go I absolutely love the design of '06 R6 & '07 R1's and saw a Black Naked new FZ1 with a rider wearing Black leathers with black Helmet at night on a lit road it looked oh so tough, would I replace my Gen 5 VFR with any of the above ? well no but I do like their looks on the road better than the equivalent others. ( 1098S excluded )

 

What about Buell?

 

Buell is basically a joke with a engine & wheels attached. If one was given to me, I would sell it on Ebay. $10000+ for a bike with a 1930's tech engine? No thanks.

Hey dude do the world a favor and pull your bottom lip over your head & swallow. It's a free country & I can post anything I want. Last time I checked I do not recall needing to run my posts by you for your approval. No one made you read my post but you did & then chose to post an isult back at me.

FYI, I've been a LOYAL Honda person since the 70's. I learned to ride on a 1974 CB550F. I've owned 4 Honda's over the last 15 years. I'm currently looking for a 1969 CB750K. I like Honda, I prefer Honda over other bikes, I buy Honda's even though I could buy any bike I want. I simply want Honda to get back in the game and start building the bikes everyone knows they can build.

The point I was trying to make, which you are obviously to freaking stupid to comprehend, is that Honda is doing exactly what GM did to itself in the 80's & early 90's. GM was (& currently still is but not for long) the largest auto maker in the world. From their beginning up till the late 60's & early 70's it was because GM made the best products. In the 80's they maintained that position because people were simply used to buying GM's. In the 90's people woke up & saw that GM products were for the most part inferior to the competition. GM kept the title by heavily rebating their vehicles to get sales. Fast forward to 2007 GM produced their 1st quarterly profit in like 7 years the last quarter of 2006. It took over 20 years but GM is finally realizing that they need to make quality products instead of making lousy ones and rebating them to sell them.

Now, compare this info with Honda Motorcycle Corporation. With the exception of the Goldwing (I even know some people that say the K1200 is a better touring bike but I don't know since I have no desire to own a 2 wheel land couch), pretty much every company out there (except HD) makes a better bike than Honda does in whatever catagory it's in. The sooner Honda gets this info, the better we'll all be. If my VFR was wrecked or stolen tomorrow, unless I could find a low mileage yellow 2000, I would be heading straight for the Triumph or BMW dealer.

So what does this all mean? Instead of just snapping off an insulting reply, try putting your thinking cap on and try READING & COMPREHENDING what's been written. I never said I don't like Honda, I said I no longer think Honda is the top company out there.

KC-10 FE out...
lane:

 

I did read and comprehend. Perhaps instead of going on a tirade, you should read and comprehend my response...which is that you, a KC10 Flight Engineer, don't know more about running a multi-billion dollar company than the people that are running it.

 

I did comprehend your response. You chose to insult me for no reason so that's how it goes.

Anyway, to your point. "a KC10 Flight Engineer, don't know more about running a multi-billion dollar company than the people that are running it". Lets look at that.

Me, a dumb, neanderthal, enlisted slob with no degree couldn't possibly know anything about running a company right? I'm not quite sure how you could surmise this without knowing me or anything about me so lets look at it from the perspective of the ultra corporation.

How many companies do we all know of that are "Multi-Billion" but suck large & still stay in business?

I can name several:

Ford. They have to be the worst company on the face of the planet. I own a Ford truck. It's an underpowered, overweight, law quality piece of crap & I hate it & I'm counting the days until I trade it in. Ford has no customer service, no quality products, no outlook for growth. They care more about appeasing the unions and keeping Billy Ford Jr happy than running their company. In fact, the F series vehicle are the only thing keeping them afloat. Basically I'm shocked Ford hasn't gone bankrupt yet.

American Airlines. They are the largest airline in the world and yet are probably the worst I've ever flown on. I simply cannot think of a single good thing to say about AA.

Microsoft. Does anyone really think Billy G actually cares about his customers? When you have a monopoly, you don't have to.

HD. EVERY SINGLE product they make is inferior to just about all of its competition. Everytime I went to a HD dealer (my wife was interested in the 883), all of them wanted deposits just to sit on bikes. They make probably just as much on accessories & apparrel as they do on bikes. Eventually people will get sick of paying extra for a crappy bike just because it has two words on it.

WalMart. Total crapola. Sam Walton is probably turning is his grave. When he ran the joint, Walmart only sold American made products and only hired part time LEGAL American residents. The minute he died, the company turned into the great big piece of crap it is now. 75% of everything on every shelf is made by 3rd world sweat shop labor. The only thing I buy there is auto supplies. About the only thing good I can say about WM is the refuse to let their employees go union.


Now, if I were the CEO of any of these companies, I can guarantee you I could fix most of their problems.

Ford & AA, GET RID OF THE FREAKING UNIONS! Problems solved. Unions had their day but that day has come & gone. Now their sole function is to suck the life out of the very company that employs them.

Microsoft. Until Apple is a serious threat, MS really doesn't have any problems. Billy G knows people will buy his crappy products and swear at them under their breath because there is no real alternative. When Apple is a real threat, sit back & watch the ensuing hilarity.

HD. Simple. Get over the entire heritage thing. Look at Cadillac for inspiration. Caddy had remarkably bad vehicles from the 80's till the mid 90's. Customers flocked to the competition. Caddy changed direction & started making rwd cars that looks zero like their previous cars. Caddy is now in the hunt again and soon will probably be the equal or better than most of the luxury imports.

WalMart. Get the company back to where Sam had it. Start giving the American consumer what they need instead of a bunch of low quality crap that people only buy because there is no competition.

KC-10 FE out...
lane:

 

The juvenile attitude that horsepower and weight is what makes a bike best is humorous. Kawi's & Suzuki's have always been the fastest. Yamaha makes a sharp, quality product. Honda's are the BEST because of QUALITY,DURABILITY,STYLE,and SEAMLESS PERFORMANCE. BMW should not even be compared. They have GREAT DURABILITY and QUALITY, but are butt-ugly and performance-I won't even go there! Buell and Harley are Novelties!

 

I agree with jb - you cannot compare GM's crappier than hell products compared to its competition to Hondas products compared to its competition. Just because Honda's bikes are a little heavier and a little down on power in each category from the competition DOES NOT mean they don't have cleaner fit/finish and arent better built.
I do agree they need to have more balls and creativity than they're showing, but I still think the quality of what they are producing per dollar spent is second to none.
Btw I'm talking about 70's, 80's and part of the 90's when I say GM products sucked - I think they've done a great turnaround the last 10 or so years.

 

Don't forget that 95+ percent of the bikes that Honda sells go to the average rider. I agree that if Honda wanted, their bikes could be best in class, but I don't think that most people's abilities are at the point where they would notice the difference between best in class and worst in class. It's just that bikes today are so good, that the difference between best and worst is usually razor thin. I think that what Honda relies on when selling a motorcycle is their reliability. This is why I own nothing but Hondas regardless of where the bike falls in a review.

 

This is the greatest era motorcycling has ever experienced, something for everyone. Just because you are ignorant, or can't afford something, don't knock it. I'd have one of every bike made if I could afford it!

PS Sold 8 Harleys this week! Some buyers had several bikes!

 

IGNORANCE! Having owned motorcycles from all the Japanese companies plus HD plus a Custom, I attribute my opinions to experience. REAL motorcycle
riders are the most educated shoppers I've encountered. Don't simply call us IGNORANT because we are not fans of that which you sell! We are all entitled to our opinions.

 

What part does ignorance play in looking at an engine that exhibits 1906 technology? I can afford to go to a Harley dealership and pay CASH for any pos on the floor, including a screamin chicken model. I'm in this sport for performance, not to find a community and a bike to help reinvent me into some kind of leather wearing, bandana sporting, tatooed freak. Thanks, I already have a personality, not looking to buy one.

 

sheesh, stereotype much?

 

Well looks like a rant of someone unhappy - Been there myself. I do not agree with you, but I do not totally disagree with you either and I respect your opinion. You do make a good point on some things with Honda, but sometimes you gotta wait and see what is really going on. I think Victory makes a really good bike, but I do not find them attactive or comfortable at all - just my opinion but not disrespecting your opinion. Personally, I feel HD bikes are generally for people who like to customize and add chrome. HD bikes also need a lot of maintenance, and if it is an AMF era HD then it will overheat and leak oil. I do rank on the AMF HD bikes, but I do give AMF credit for keeping the company alive. If you do not like HD what do you think about Indian bikes. Indian bikes are classics, but they are not very good either. Basically, American products are only going to be about making money and will only be as good as the competition. HDs biggest advantage is their ability to market anything with the HD logo - so weather the product is good or not makes no difference. If the BMW is what you want then why are you so unhappy. I think BMW makes a good bike, but I am sold on the GoldWing. The GoldWing has a much larger aftermarket support and I think it is more attractive and comfortable for me and my passengers. Also, it is easier to find a shop to work on a Honda than a BMW and it would be more expensive to have work done on a BMW. Do what is the best for you so you can be happy. At least you know what you like and what will work for you. And what the heck, you still have your VFR so take care.

 

Not at all in general, but the Harley lifestyle is just toooo weird.
Last weekend I saw a Harley rider wearing sunglasses with big fat chrome rims. Maybe its different in Colorado, but you can see hundreds Harley riders in "gangs" riding around every weekend, and they all fit THE stereotype - no helmet, Harley doo-rag, leather vests, riding slowwww in groups. The seedy bars have dozens and dozens of Harleys parked in front.
In short, it's impossible not to stereotype them.

 

You know, reading these replies goes to show how polarizing an observation or opinion can be.

If you read my posts in this thread, you NEVER, NOT ONCE EVER, see anywhere where I said I DO NOT like Honda. You NEVER see where I say I prefer BMW over Honda. You never see anywhere where I say I am unhappy with either of my Honda's. If you check my gallery, you will see that I have two Honda's in my garage & neither of them are going anywhere. It would take an offer of more than $10K for me to get rid of my VFR. I've been offered $3500 (which cost $3999 new in 1989) for the Hawk & yet it's still in my garage.

I'm trying my best not to be insulting but READ THE FREAKING POST & understand what's being typed or ask a question before you add an insulting reply. I never once said Honda doesn't make a quality product. I never once said I think Honda sucks. I only said Honda is going the same route GM did in the past. I DID NOT say Honda makes crap, I only said Honda isn't paying attention to what it's customers want or need & as a result is resting on it's laurels and relying on customer loyalty instead of product charactaristics to sell said products.

I offer the following examples to back this claim:

1. The CBR's. Then, used to be the best street bike in every class they were in. Now, they try to compete as the best RACE BIKE's and fall short. Go back to concentrating on best street prowess and let the squids fight over GSXR's & ZX's.

2. The VFR. This bike (5th Gen) used to be the single best motorcycle on Planet Earth. Several sources even came right out & said the VFR is the best bike money can buy. Now, the bike gained weight, lost agility, went up in price & you can't even say if there will be a VFR after 2007. I will never, ever get rid of my Yellow Y2K. After 7 years of ownership, I still go to my garage to simply look at the machine. If I destroy it in a wreck or it gets stolen, I have no way to replace it. I want Honda to make a bike that makes me drool.

3. The ST1300. Then, (as 1100) was pretty much the only "modern" bike in a class of about a half dozen. Now, it's really nothing special and at least 3 other marques make a bike that's just as good.

4. The VTX's Then, class shattering bike that re-wrote the rules on big-bore cruisers. Now, every other maker (other than HD) followed suit and now make superior products.

I could go on but I'm sure (actually I'm not sure) you get the point. To re-state the point, I like Honda, always have & always will. I learned to ride on my fathers 1974 CB550F (he bought it new in 1974 and still has it) & because of this, I will always have a place in my heart for Honda bikes. Kinda like your first love, you never forget it. I understand that some people might feel offended that I "insulted" the brand you ride. Grow up, 'cause I didn't. Are you one of those kids that started a fight because someone said that their daddy could beat up your daddy? I want Honda to start making bikes that people will break down the door of the dealership to get too. Right now, I can think of not a single one that fits that description.

So what needs to happen you say, if I think I'm that I'm so freaking smart? Glad you asked, read on...

1. Honda needs to make a "beginners" bike & the best one on the market, just like I said with my Hawk GT suggestion in post #1 of this thread. Sure they have the Rebel & NightHawk but lets be honest here, these are MSF class bikes & nothing else. Right now, only Suzuki (SV650), Kawasaki (Ninja 650) & Ducati (Monster 695) make a bike that could even remotely be considered an adequate "beginner's" bike. Other than the 3 I've mentioned, can anyone think of a good "beginner's" bike?

2. Forget about full on race bikes. Look to the posts on this forum for how much people get wrapped up in dreams of a V5 powered RCV211 street replica. Either make the best race replicas money can buy or make the best street bikes money can buy. You can't do both and make both parties happy.

3. Get on the cruiser bandwagon. Like it or not, cruiser are what the USA wants & they pay the bills. Make the best or go home.

4. Give the consumer a 3 year warranty.

So, Mr. KC-10 FE, if you're so freaking smart, what does Honda do that's good if you hate them so much? Again, glad you asked, again, read on...

1. Honda makes an extremely well engineered product. There is nothing wrong with any bike Honda makes. They simply are too "routine" to stick out in any catagory.

2. Honda makes great looking bikes. Look at a Suzakawasuki for this. Their products are ugly.

3. Honda makes buying a bike an enjoyable process. No dealer I can think of makes me feel more welcome at the dealer.

If you don't like me as a person, I could care less. I guarantee I've been insulted worse. I only challenge you to think. If you still think I'm a retard, that's your business & I sincerely respect your opinion to do so (no sarcasm, I swear). If no one ever challenged status quo, everyone would still be driving a Ford Model A & aircooled POS bikes made by companies that no longer exist.

KC-10 FE out...
lane:

 

Must be fun living in the largest economy on the planet.
Which market gets what model and what choice is there for really exploring what bikes are on offer ? Where does the balance come in - the wants of the buying public versus how much the thing actually cost ( all that R&D etc... must be costed in somewhere ).
Honda may appear to be behind... at the moment. Maybe we need to wait and see... lets see... here in the late 1980's Toyota marketed some exceptional cars ( for the time )..now they are all dependable... and boring.
Is Honda at the down part of a cycle... so to speak ?

Slugfest: