Gas in oil? Help, please!

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by ubermaxii, Jun 18, 2012.

  1. ubermaxii

    ubermaxii New Member

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    2008 vfr800, all stock. After sitting for about a year... I dumped seafoam and a fresh gallon or so of gas in the tank (on top of half a tank of old fuel), cranked it up and took it to get inspected. The oil (also about a year old, synthetic mobil 1 4T stuff) level wasn't checked (I know, it was dumb). The bike did not run great (hesitated a bit, etc) but I expected it wouldn't. My hope was that the seafoam would clean out any gunk in the injectors... After about 20 miles of riding, it started running pretty well (although the transition to 4 valve mode seemed much harsher than I remember). It also seems to run hotter than it used to - the temp when cruising is enough to keep fan on most of the time. At idle it is about the same temperature as when cruising (note: I am in Texas and it is rather warm!). So, after doodling around tonight, I checked the oil level and it was above the sight glass when on center stand! I smelled the oil and it has the distinct smell of gas ( like a 2 stroke gas/oil mix).

    Can gas leak past what I suspect are dirty injectors? I'm also worried that bike may run lean if there is injector issues. What should I do / check?

    Thanks!
     
  2. orion3814

    orion3814 New Member

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    Yes fuel can run passed a leaky injectors right into the throttle body down into the cylinder and passed the rings into the crankcase. I wouldn't worry to much about it running lean right now I would worry about what damage could have possibly happened to the valvetrain and lower end due to the oil possibly have been thinned out to the point of losing its viscosity. B4 u drain it get an oil sample of what's in there and send it off then change it and hope for the best. If there are high amounts of iron,tin,copper,or aluminum in the sample its possible damage was done. And if damage was done to what extent.. I would do that first b4 dumping ne money into it for injectors and whatnot. But if u must absolutely ride b4 u get the oil sample back then change the oil and run it chances are the injector will reseat after some good use. U could also try bg44k. That stuff isn't to harsh and works good as well
     
  3. ubermaxii

    ubermaxii New Member

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    I will take a sample and send it off. Hopefully, riding only 20 miles on the thinned oil won't have hurt anything.... hopefully. Thanks for the quick reply. BG44k a better product to use?
     
  4. orion3814

    orion3814 New Member

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    Just an afterthought after u sample maybe see how much extra volume you had in the case fill the quarts back up with the used oil and see how much more was in there. If it was say a pint I may not worry so much.

    Also the bg. Is just my opinion and we all know opinions lol. Everyone's got one although I love seafoam as well..
     
  5. ubermaxii

    ubermaxii New Member

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    Whatever the volume between the 'add' and 'full' marks...it went up about half that much. I am guessing that is half a quart (quite a bit) but I will find out for sure when I drain oil later. I'm sure I have a few empty oil bottles laying around I can fill up to measure. Wish me luck!
     
  6. ubermaxii

    ubermaxii New Member

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    UPDATE: So I drained the oil and changed the filter. The oil definitely has fuel in it, but it doesn't completely mix with the oil as I thought it would. After it settles, you can stir it a bit and a golden color layer will come up to the top. The gold layer is REALLY scary, because I imagine brass bearings or something would be that color! I cut the filter open and did not find any metal shavings at all.... so good news there. My focus has turned to giving the injectors a solid cleaning. I've found rigs that hook up to shop air compressors and force a solvent through them at a pressure you set (supposed to match the regulator pressure on the rail). Anyone tried this? I am about to drain gas tank, should I simply refill and run an obnoxious amount of seafoam (can't buy 44k stuff locally) through it or should i start pulling off the fuel rail? I hope that I can fix the fuel issue quickly so that it does not contaminate my new oil ($50). After changing the oil, I ran the bike for a bit on the stand, seemed to start and run okay, but it would hesitate and misfire a little bit a low RPM. If I popped the throttle at low speed, it would occasionally backfire through the intake (could hear it "pop"). Typically, a valving issue will cause this sort of backfire, but I have recently learned that a poor mixture can pull this off somehow too. Thanks for any input, everyone!
     
  7. kennybobby

    kennybobby New Member

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    Does it sound like it's idling properly, smooth and constant rpm, or is it lumpy and jumping around? When riding down the road does it feel like it's making crisp normal power or is it boggy and slow to rev? There will be a certain amount of fits and coughs as it sloughs off all the effects of a year sitting without running, but a few heat cycles should help that pass.

    i'm not sure how an injector could get stuck open with the engine off, but that seems to be what happened to you (weak return spring?). Although now that you've got it running it may not be stuck and leaking anymore, and the oil shouldn't get soiled again.

    If an injector were stuck open then the engine would not run well at idle or down the road, and the soiled oil may still be a threat. The injector may tend to clean somewhat the longer you run it. i have no experience with snake oil or seafoam, but in carburetors the residue from stale ethanolized gasoline forms a concretanous spooge that cannot be dissolved with cheap carb cleaner sprays or with any add-it-in-the-tank products sold over the counter.
     
  8. ubermaxii

    ubermaxii New Member

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    In the last few hours I have drained the tank (95% of it anyway), measured old oil, and put a half bottle of sea foam in with just enough gas to get it in the system. Ran it for a bit and am now letting it soak. The idle was rough (missed and chugged when light throttle applied, wouldn't hold low rpm well) before and is now nice and smooth. The old oil level (which was high) turned out to be 3.5 qts plus whatever little bits i spilled - so not as overfilled as I initially though.

    I honestly have no idea how an injector could hang open, but I can't think of any other ways it could have gotten into the crankcase like that. I am keeping a close eye on the oil level to see if it rises at all. I'm still a little worried about the metallic gold color of the old oil that settled (or maybe fuel, which ever settles), but since there wasn't very much gas in the oil I doubt that the 20 miles I rode did any damage. Filter was visually clean... maybe that color is normal wear from clutch / synchros / etc. I have no idea. I'll keep riding it, watching the oil level, and change the oil again in 50 miles or so for inspection. That sound reasonable?
     
  9. danny_tb

    danny_tb New Member

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    What colour is the fuel / seafoam? I suspect that the layer on top is one of these two. It's unlikely to be wear metal because wear metal is more dense than oil, so it sinks to the bottom. My last two oil analysis results had acceptible wear metals, but showed fuel dilution and reduced viscosity. My bike's oil level increases, and smells like fuel, so either I have a leaky injector or the rings are worn out (my engine's performance suggests it's an injector). Based on what I've seen from my bike, yours probably won't have damage worth worrying about, but it's best to stay on the safe side, and get an oil analysis done after a thousand miles on the new oil (you need to have some miles on the oil so wear metals and fuel will show up). Google "engine oil analysis kit" and you should find several companies which send sample kits and perform the analysis quite cheaply. The company I use (in Oz) is about AU$36.

    It could be possible that your injectors are pitted, causing leakage. If this is the case, injector cleaners will remove the gunk that fills the pits, resulting in worse leakage (this is what I think is happening with my injectors).

    In short, hope that the injector cleaner fixes it, but if it doesn't, you'll probably need new injector$ (unless it's caused by a leaky fuel pressure regulator diaphragm).

    Good luck!
     
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