New Bike = Dead Bike?! - r/h side hot, stalled, no power...

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by Jobiwan, Oct 2, 2013.

  1. Jobiwan

    Jobiwan New Member

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    Just picked up a 1986 VFR700F - 47,000 miles

    Only two known issues - one being an engine stutter that happened once every 10 rides or so... bike lost enough power for rider to pull over and stop... turn off for 20-30 seconds - restart and everything would be fine again!

    Spoke to mechanic that serviced it for previous owner = they were unable to reproduce issue despite having the bike for a week and doing a couple of hundred K's on her.

    Happened once yesterday morning when I started riding the bike home... stopped - turned off for 20-30 seconds - restart and everything was fine again! - at least for the next 680km...

    Rode it around town today to pick up a few things... problem recurred... bike actually died.

    Tried to restart - restarted - pulled in clutch and put into gear - let out clutch - bike died
    At that stage I noticed that the frame by the right rear cylinder was quite hot... enough so that I couldn't lay my hand on it for more than a few seconds!

    Left hand side was fine...

    Tried to restart - restarted - pulled in clutch and put into gear - let out clutch - bike died
    Tried to restart - wouldn't start - left for 5 minutes...

    Tried to restart - restarted - but had a bit of trouble idling
    pulled in clutch and put into gear - let out clutch - bike died
    Tried to restart - wouldn't start - left for 10 minutes...

    Tried to restart - restarted - but had a bit of trouble idling
    pulled in clutch and put into gear - let out clutch - bike died
    Tried to restart - wouldn't start - left for 15 minutes...

    Tried to restart - restarted - but had a bit of trouble idling
    pulled in clutch and put into gear - let out clutch - bike died
    Tried to restart - wouldn't start - left for 20 minutes...

    Pushed bike to top of hill and coasted down the other side to home...

    SO, What now?

    Carb prob? - r/rear running majorly lean?
    Valve problem? (didn't sound like it was only running on 3 cyl)
    Cooling prob so overheat?
    ????????? :chaingun:
     
  2. Jobiwan

    Jobiwan New Member

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    Thanks for the quick reply... will check as you suggest.

    Side stand safety switch would trip immediately rather than when trying to pull away...
    Apparently the rectifier is a aftermarket replacement - know the Honda ones are an issue as I just had the one in the VTR250 replaced.

    Whe you say a failing R/R can also cause the frame to get excessively hot... what sort of failure are you suggesting?

    Joe
     
  3. Rollin_Again

    Rollin_Again Member

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    Sorry was trying to edit my post and deleted it. I'll re-post it for the benefits of others in the future.


    Rollin
     
  4. Jobiwan

    Jobiwan New Member

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    Thanks again :)

    So checked connections as suggested... plenty of juice in battery (suggests charging ok - yet to put multimeter on it)... did have a loose -ve battery connection (enough to be able to rotate lead fairly easily)

    But now that it's stone cold (been sitting for 2 hours) starts and takes off just fine...

    Hmmm... so, issues seems to be caused by possible overheating due to slow/city driving... any idea's anyone?

    but... temp gauge does not appear to be working properly as only registered heat when bike was stopped... so that makes me wonder about the cooling system... will try to do a flush tomorrow and fix gauge tomorrow.
     
  5. kennybobby

    kennybobby New Member

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    You have an unknown item when you get an old used bike. All troubleshooting assumes that the basics are intact, e.g. the battery ground terminal is connected tightly and making good contact. You don't really know the condition of the bike so you can't assume anything.

    Download the factory service manual, there is troubleshooting guides for all the major systems with causes related to symptoms.
     
  6. Jobiwan

    Jobiwan New Member

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    Yeah, and that's always been the case. :p

    But stupidity doesn't help!... Prev owner told me he had checked all fluid levels and it was all good to go... I stupidly did not check them myself!... Checking oil this morning and is real low!... Either this s part of the issue or it's used it on the trip home which indicates other problems...

    Already downloaded service manual and reading... Prev owner also gave me his Clymer manual so am looking at that too... Just trying to narrow it down a bit.

    Joined this forum because it seemed a real mine of good technical information and already really impressed with how active and supportive the community is :smile:

    thanks guys
     
  7. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Go through and check everything !!

    Geeze, mate, i'd sure like to see a couple photos of your VTR250.:redface: I want one o dem bitches bad !!


    Rollin, no sidestand switches on gens 1&2.
     
  8. Jobiwan

    Jobiwan New Member

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    LOL! :biggrin:

    My first bike was the original red and silver VT250F - owned from new!
    82_VT250F.JPG

    (not pic of my actual bike) - but loved this model - even with it's nervous front end!

    This one
    2012-03-26 08.05.11.jpg

    has been my daily rider for the last 2 years... but long past time to move up... so the 700 :biggrin:

    Raining today so no work on bike... took it up to my brothers place as he has a garage so will be able to work on it properly.

    Definitely a heat problem - got quite hot on RHS again just in that 20km trip - def doesn't like slow riding :p
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2013
  9. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    The failure of the radiator thermoswitch (turns on the fan) is common. It's one of the first checks anyone getting an older VFR needs to investigate........after the charging system of course.

    If you find some bent radiator fins, straighten them out with a small knife blade for better cooling, and replace the radiator cap as it can cause overheating if it doesn't hold pressure.
     
  10. Jobiwan

    Jobiwan New Member

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    Yeah... after doing LOTS more reading had come to the same conclusion.

    Also cannot remember hearing the fan come on...

    So:
    1. check switch
    2. check fan motor
    3. also check thermostat
    4. and radiator cap
    5. and, as you say, check/straighten rad fins...

    While there:
    6. check rear carb boots for hardening/cracking/deterioration
    7. check rear cyl heads and cam cover gaskets for leaks (poss warping)
    8. do cooling system pressure check
    9. do oil system pressure check...

    Am I missing anything?
     
  11. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Hit the rear fan motor bearing with some spray lube. There is a duct leading to it behind the motor.

    Also, after refilling cooling system, remember to check the level again-- under the rad cap !!-- after your first 20 minute ride and after the engine has fully cooled.
     
  12. Jobiwan

    Jobiwan New Member

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    Roger that... and thanks for all the advice! :)

    Appears it was just the thermo-switch - new one on the way.

    Taken the opportunity to do some cosmetic repairs to the fairings - Should have it done by Wednesday evening! :)
     
  13. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Yep, that rad switch check needs to be done immediately after purchase of any older VF or VFR or any other Honda bike from 70's to 90's.
     
  14. Jobiwan

    Jobiwan New Member

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    OK.... so, swapped in a new thermo-switch for fan - no longer overheating, but...

    R/R cylinder still running way hotter than the rest - no, don't have actual temps, just observation & touch.

    I get the impression from these forums (and not having a ref model local to compare to) that the bike is also running quite rough... almost sounds agricultural! - got a bit of a shake to her (like my VTR250)... is this normal?... or am I running on 3 1/2 cyl?

    Figure I will remove and clean out carbs anyway - not done that before but figure I'm up to it (and I want my new baby to be perfect - or as close as she can be :) )

    WOuld a balance and sync (assuming I fix probable lean #4) make a big difference in power/smoothness?

    If the PO had just considered this normal (which I think he did and is partly why he sold) what else could I be looking at?... burnt valves?... rear head removal to check valve seals? (PO said compression checked 6 months ago and was good, but...)

    Thanks for all the advice to date - really appreciated.
     
  15. kennybobby

    kennybobby New Member

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    You better check compression then too

    Whenever a seller tells you something is good...
     
  16. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    AS K-B ( one of our most estimable members) suggests, do your own compression test, clean the carbs, and flush the cooling system while the cylinder block drains are open.
     
  17. Jobiwan

    Jobiwan New Member

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    OK... checked plugs...
    Rears look OK..
    P1010914.jpg

    No so sure about the fronts...
    P1010919.jpg

    Removed carbs... having read how tough this can be I copied text and pics from Toe Cutters guide to a Word doc to have on hand as a guide pm me if you want a copy - VERY handy)... actually ended up fairly easy (with the aid of a demo bar :p applied gently)

    As the separated from the back it became obvious what the issue was with the rear right cylinder
    P1010922.JPG

    rest of the boots were fine - but ordered a full set - 10 days ex Japan :-/
     
  18. Jobiwan

    Jobiwan New Member

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    ...still 10 days gives me a chance to take my time cleaning out the carb.

    But... taking apart the bike showed up and other issue:
    P1010915.jpg P1010918.JPG

    Ahhh!, the joys of second (third?, 20th?) hand bikes!... How easy is this to get re-welded?
     
  19. kennybobby

    kennybobby New Member

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    Good catch on finding the broken carb boot--the extra air leaking in would cause it to run leaner and hotter.

    Any good welding shop with TIG or Heliarc could weld aluminum. What sort of mishap could cause the cracked casting is what i would be looking at, and what other damage resulted...
     
  20. Jobiwan

    Jobiwan New Member

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    Right... carbs back on... thanks for the board and racthet tie down tip to ease it in!

    Started up fine once I got the fuel flowing, but...

    Should it sound this clattery?
     
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