New VFR Owner! Guess why I'm here...

..... Done guessing?

Mostly because the bike just got towed home after acting 'strange' then bogging down, and going dead on the freeway, being pulled over to the side and finding the battery dead!

I sorta assume thats why most new users come here at least

Making the broad assumption that I need to change the rectifier here as it might be a bit 'spotty' since it tested OK with 14.4v at 5k a month ago, but the bike has been through 2 batteries in like 3 months, and I ride in 100+F weather, lots of HEAT.

Anyone have a step by step, an 'ELI5' sorta post on how to replace the unit? Any ideas what it'll cost to get it at a Honda shop?

The lovely irony is that when the bike got dropped off, Amazon had delivered a nice Ctek charger I previously ordered to keep the battery topped up and try and take some load off that damned rectifier... on the charger now, we'll see how that goes, its certainly showing a dead battery though!

.... Also! HI!

Its got 40k on it, its a 2001, has a Micron high mount exhaust, Powercommander 3 with a Dyno tune (fancy chart in the documentation when I got it!), black wheels, red fairing.

Since its blasphemy to buy something and go to the forums for it without posting a picture of the goods... have at!

 

Wow, for just joining the VFR family, you certainly know the way to introduce yourself! Congratulations on your ride, and sorry to hear to you're having trouble. One thing you will find by reading here on the forum, the VFR does suffer from electrical gremlins. The first thing you should do is take off all the body work and inspect every wiring connector and ground location to see if there are signs of wiring harness issues. Then take the battery and have it tested to see if it is still usable, if so charge it up and then do 'The Drill'....

What is "The Drill?" It is the process that you need to perform on your charging system. This means testing the Stator, and the R/R and seeing if either of these is the culprit. Most likely the stator is gone if your battery is not getting charged but as mentioned a bit ago, the wiring harness can also be the culprit. Do a search on the forum for "The Drill" and you should see plenty of references to the testing procedure. I'll see if I can also find a short cut to a post for you.

Cheers and Welcome to The World!


Just reread your post and also noticed that you joined back in 2010! So I take back everything I said...except the part about checking all the wiring and having the battery tested. Odd that you get 14.5 but your battery stilled died. I'd also still do the drill just for good measure!

 

Who you try to fool Xipher
You have been here for awhile........!
Do the drill....
I am replacing the whole charging system this weekend. Bring twelve packs and the bike
So we can replace them both :wink:
:thumb:

 

Welcome xipher,
This "Drill"?
http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthread.php/39277-How-to-fix-common-regulator-Stator-failures
Hope I have the right link.
And, btw Scubalong, are you going the Roadsterscycle's way for you charging system?

 

OEM for me
The OEM serve me well so why change

 

Not only are your a member of VFRworld, your now also an official member of the very exclusive "My R/R fried my wires and left my bike dead" club. Current membership is probably only around 27,000, give or take.

Replacing the R/R is pretty easy, even if you are not mechanically inclined. Seriously. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being check air pressure in the tires and 10 being...something difficult - changing the R/R is probably about a 3 or a 4. I got no skillz with wrenching, and even I managed to change my R/R, add in a VFRness, and solder all my connections. Plus you'll learn a little bit about the charging system so if you experience any other electrical shorts, you'll have a basic understanding.

Don't go to your dealer. There are plenty of quality options out there. Read the thread/link above posted by Nookieass and you'll be fine.

 

roadstercycle.com for sure, the man knows what he is talking about. I went with the Series R/R, because I use less power than stock, which means more heat from OEM R/R.

 

OK.

I charged the battery completely and let it float for about 12~ hours to make certain it was primo.

Bike starts up, run, seems OK.

Resting voltage for the battery after disconnecting the charger was around 13.3-13.2V

After starting the bike, it 'settles' around 12.43v at idle, thats incorrect isn't it? Should be reading over 13V at idle?

Running up the revs on the bike gives.... odd results, it certainly never goes over 12.5v that I could see, and dips down to 10V at times! WAT...

Although I work heavy IT stuff, electricity is a cruel mistress to me, so, though I watched Rick's Motorsports 'How to test a motorcycle rectifier' and 'How to test a motorcycle stator' about 3-4 times each as per 'The Drill', as well as the appropriate sections of the FSM, my tests results were nonsensical for the more technical tests.

When trying to test the stator, 2 of the phases show almost EXACTLY 10v, and another shows 1.9V~ or so. Running the revs up gives maybe... 12V on 2 of the phases and the other one just sorta jumps around a bit at very low voltages?

I see the rectifier/regulator test is a bit more involved than finding a ground and jamming the positive lead into the back of the plug and reading the AC voltage, and when I do the 'diode' test as far as I can see, sometimes I get totally strange values like "465!" or sometimes "0.01" and other times "0.07" across 2 then "500~" across another... what in the HELL is this all about?!

Should I bite the bullet and go order a stator and r/r and just be done with it? Is the stator a pain in the arse to replace? Is the FSM correct in saying that taking that cover off will douse my garage flood in oil? Did I remove all the bolts then realize it was totally sealed and very difficult to pry off and thus replaced all the bolts upon reading the small print that essentially said "If you do this, oil is gonna be ALL OVER OH GOD WHY DID YOU DO THAT!?" due to not realizing that was not a dry cavity? ( for some reason, having never replaced a stator on a motorcycle, I assumed it was just a flywheel and stator, dry with a cover over it)

I've got Part# 10-126H from Ricks Powersports for a rectifier, $128.72
And Part# 21-124-AD from Ricks Powersports for a stator, $126.30

Correct and agreeable?

What do I do now?

Possible a failing R/R fried the stator?

R/R is good but should be replaced with a MOSFET 50A R/R anyways since the stock one is so terrible?

Maybe the stator is fine, but I'm an idiot who can't perform the rest correctly, or a bad R/R is causing non-sense values?

Its possible I just suck at electrical stuff and should have someone else replace the stator and tell me whats wrong, and if something simple like a water pump dumps I'll handle that instead and think I'm a pretty cool dude again

Also, where is this mythical "orange bus" connector that I need to check... all the other connections look CLEAN!

Here ya' go

 

If this were my bike I would definitely change out the stator and for good measure the R/R, why not? Ping Tink as he has a good picture of the orange connector and can tell you were to find it, as all of your other connectors look in great shape. If you don't want to change out both, my money is on the stator.

As far as replacing the stator, it is bathed in oil, so you may just want to do an oil change at the same time and after the oil is drained, change the stator, then complete the oil change. R/r is out in the open and can be changed at any time.

 

Whats the best way to crack open the casing for the stator? I see mentions of people cracking the cover, so I'm not exactly keen on prying... what is the correct way of going about it, the FSM just says "Take it off" and doesn't explain how to best to break the bond of the cover with the case?

I did have all the bolts off and was going to remove the cover before realizing there was oil in there, and that it was STRONGLY sealed up!

I'll wait for Tink to explain where the orange connector is...

I'm thinking the same thing, I don't REALLY want to crack open the case and replace it, but its looking like the best thing to do. Get an up-rate R/R and a quality stator, be done with it for another 40k eh? Sucks since I've only had the bike for about 2 weeks myself!

 

Stator shot. 3 coils should all read the same. AC voltages should increase with RPM, up to 40-50v AC at 5000 rpm or more. There should not be any continuity to ground.

When system is working, DC voltage should be stable at 13-14vdc.

Check roadstercycle.com, top rated Shindengen Mosfer R/R is about $95.00, complete kits to replace all wiring run $130

 

Any of those kits pre-wired with the right plugs? I went kinda lookin' about there but it all seemed to be /almost/ plug and play... but not quite?

 

I think all the ricks motorsport ones are plug and play for the specific bike they are sold for. I got my Mosfet R/R from them and its working great for me, no issues for the 3 or so months ive had it.

 

Ordered up both a stator and R/R from Rick's since they seem to be good stuff, would have loved to go with the FH020AA, but 30 amps vs 50 and the lack of plug/play's got me nabbing the alternative.

Anyone have a write up on getting a voltmeter setup and installed that works in conjunction with the ignition? If someone's got a cool little kit for that, I'm game, or just suggestions...

Man this is gonna SUCK not having my bike Monday morning :C

 

Although I have not cracked the case in the VFR, I have on several other bikes. I used a rubber mallet in those instances and only used enough force to jar the seal loose., light taps around the edges of the cover. No need to slam it with brute force, at least that has been my past experience.

 

Voltmeter setup is too simple 2 wires red and black, just connect them anywhere in the wiring red to ignition on wire and black to frame
Pilskin only 27000, they are just the ones you know about, boy does Honda love these failing spare parts, they probably make more on these than in selling the bikes in the first place. I think they only sell bikes so they can make buckets on the spares

 

Sorry to hear of your electrical woe Xipher.

I just installed a voltmeter on my 98 a couple of weeks back; here's what I did.

I fitted a fused 4-pin relay on the left side of the loom alongside the fuse area; I just taped it onto the loom. The fuse protects the positive circuit in case of a short.

I spliced a power wire onto the live wire of a taillight bulb (soldered on, then heat-shrink insulation applied), ran this wire to one of the switching pins on the relay, ran a wire from the other switching pin and spliced that onto the ground wire of the same taillight bulb. This set up turns on the relay when the ignition is on.

I mounted a voltmeter on top of the steering stem, but there's plenty of locations around the fairing. I used a barb end fitting intended for a 19mm garden irrigation hose, which fitted nicely in the stem and gave me something to attach the voltmeter to, and meant I didn't have to attack the bodywork. I drilled a couple of holes through the end of the fitting to take the spade terminals from back of the meter, and with the wire terminals connected it holds together nicely. The wires are feed through the steering stem, and I wrapped them in a piece of rubber hose to prevent chafing where they exit out the bottom.

I ran a wire from the negative/ground terminal of the battery direct to the voltmeter. I ran a wire to one of the switched pins on the relay, and then from the other switched pin to the voltmeter. Running all the wires is easier if you pull off the tail cowl and left side fairing panel.

I bought a cheap LED meter and added a bit of silicone sealer in obvious holes, but if I did it again I'd go with an LCD display as the LED is really hard to read in daylight. You will need a crimping tool and some insulated female spade crimp terminals, insulation tape, some small cable ties, and preferably a soldering iron.

I see a pretty steady 13.8-14.0v while riding, down to 12.8-13v at idle.

 

A bit of a bummer to hear that the LED voltmeter is hard to read in the sun, those seem to be the only ones I can find that are a reasonable size, price, and actually look waterproof!

Did you get something like this? http://www.amazon.com/DROK-2-7-30V-Waterproof-Condition-Motorcycle/dp/B00CK3Z1HW

Was trying to find something green to match the lighting already on the dash of the bike, sort of do this...



But without the (somewhat insane) $60+ cost of those DATEL meters?

Also, I've learned so far in this whole thing, a GOOD battery charger with an informative display is a very worthwhile investment! And also, since the rectifier melted on my old VF700S too, that Honda motorcycles MUST be secretly wired by Lucas Electrical... there's no way, having had multiple Honda /cars/, that Honda designed and implemented the electrical systems on their motorcycles...

Hope these parts get delivered soon!

 

Don't go picking on Lucas electrics, I'm working on a Flying Flea at the moment and they used Miller electrics on those to make Lucas look good layful:

 

Everybody pokes fun at Lucas Electrics, I've had an 56 Austin Healey; 53 MG-TF; Jag XK-120, 3.4S & 3.8S; and a Mini Cooper S (Original), and the only problem I had was with the fuel pumps.