Regulator? Battery? Please help!

Discussion in '5th Generation 1998-2001' started by Shawn855, Aug 23, 2015.

  1. Jeff_Barrett

    Jeff_Barrett Member

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    I think I understand what you're trying to say now, and if I have understood, then yes ... I do believe I agree. It's going to depend on the RR design and how it regulates the voltage.
     
  2. Wurnman

    Wurnman New Member

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    A friend of mine who had 3 VFR's said that i should keep an eye on the grounding wire where it touches the body. They apparantly errode fairly quickly and this can/will cause the R/R to fail due to it having to overwork. Does this make sense Jeff and Knight?

    The bike i bought just had a new/seconhand CDI, R/R and wiring harness replaced. Maybe the stator also not too sure.
     
  3. NormK

    NormK New Member

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    The most important thing that needs doing is to remove the connector between the stator and rec/reg, solder and heatshrink the wires, failure to do this takes out most charging systems on these eventually
     
  4. Wurnman

    Wurnman New Member

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    Hi Norm, thx for the info. Just one question what do you mean by "heatshrink the wires"? The wires running from teh stator to R/R and put those heatshrink tubing on them, at the soldiered points?

     
  5. NormK

    NormK New Member

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    Cut the connector out slip a piece of heatshrink on the wire, then solder the join and slip the heatshrink over the join and put a bit of heat on it and that is the best insurance you can do to your charging system
     
  6. Wurnman

    Wurnman New Member

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    LOL, i kinda followed what you were saying whilst i was typing my question regarding your answer. Not sure if you noticed.

    Help me if i am wrong. So basically the Stator puts out too much volts and the R/R which then has to turn that into a normal amount overheats because of getting a too high a spike (because it's not well made) of voltage burns out and it then that access volts jumps through the whole electrical wiring and fries what it can?

    Im definitely not an electronics guy so pardon my stupidity here.
     
  7. NormK

    NormK New Member

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    Problem is not the output from the stator, what happens is the heat cycles on the connector eventually take their toll, corrosion starts, or could be the other way around but you get the drift, then because of the bad connection the spades inside the connector heat up, end up melting and if they touch each other the whole charging system gets taken out and you are sitting on the side of the road before you know there is a problem. Removing that connector is the best way of saving your ass
     
  8. Wurnman

    Wurnman New Member

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    Thx Norm, gotcha... ill definitely sort out those connectors as you have suggested.
     
  9. Knight

    Knight New Member

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    Yes your friend and your prior post about too high a voltage generated are dead on. See this:

    http://www.electrosport.com/technic...articles/how-motorcycle-charging-system-works

    These permanent magnet charging systems produces whatever power the RPM dictates. So when it produces more power than the bike will use, it dissipates the excess power by shorting it to ground. If the ground is not working then the potential in the system will stay at an elevated level at all times, generating significantly more heat than normal. Seeing that these connections all corrode after a few years, my guess is that you just hit on a significant cause of death for the charging system components.

    I am a novice rider and learning as I go, but I am obsessive compulsive about proper maintenance in general. It seems to me that the maintenance should include something like this:

    *Every five years clean the grounds. They absolutely positively must work every time, or any number of mysterious problems or damage can result, thus the aggressive schedule.

    *Every ten years all other connections and switches should be cleaned.

    This may be altered with improvements in the connection materials. I will however apply something like the above to my 1999 era bike. When I bought this bike last year one of the first things my mechanic suggested was cleaning the connections. This fall every connection will get cleaned.

    Thanks Norm for the awesome advice on improving these old connections. The older the connections are, the more corroded they are, the more the materials are degraded from long-term heat exposure, the less heat resistance they have, the poorer the materials were at the time of build, etc. But first and foremost, make sure everything in the original design is working as intended. If it is not, you may be applying a band-aid to an existing infection.
     
  10. Shawn855

    Shawn855 New Member

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    So I took it for a ride and everything seems fine. Only minor issue is that the bike's lights illuminate a bit more if I rev it a bit. So it seems like I'll be ordering a R/R soon, but at least we narrowed it down to that. I'm just glad at this point that my light's don't turn off anymore lol. I checked the ground as per your suggestion, and the ground goes straight to the battery ground terminal so it checks out there.
     
  11. Wurnman

    Wurnman New Member

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    Thx Sir Knight for answers. WIll definately clean what i can and soldier those connector into one solid wiring.

     
  12. EpiEric

    EpiEric New Member

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    I agree as far as it is a VTEC.

    A 800fi needs in the first place the R/R better/more cooled. If wanted I can post a "how to". But I would be surprised if this is new to you guys.....
     
  13. Shawn855

    Shawn855 New Member

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    Sooooo I never bothered getting a new R/R yet since I was just going to drive the bike till winter, then get the parts and install them next summer. Today my bike stalled and the battery had no charge to it at all. I charged the battery up and it started again no problem. I'm a bit confused on a couple things: 1) My R/R overcharges the battery, so why would it lose charge then work again once I charged it? If the battery is overcharged, wouldn't it eventually die out and NOT be rechargeable anymore because the R/R killed it? 2) My battery's sides are sucked in. I've seen batteries where the sides were pushed out and that was a sign of a finished battery, but sucked in? Odd to me.
     
  14. NormK

    NormK New Member

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    As long as you understand the plug and play method is nothing but putting your head in the sand, it will fail again, the connectors are shit plastic that melts and shorts everything out. You have been warned.
    So now it looks like your battery has taken a beating so even though it is charging up it is now on borrowed time, damage is done, keep riding it and you will end up pushing it home, these sort of jobs don't wait till winter. Then when you sort this fit a voltmeter to the thing, you can buy them for as little as $3 and they let you know what is going on with the voltage in the bike and might save your ass one day
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2015
  15. EpiEric

    EpiEric New Member

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    Keep riding and you have to replace not only the battery, but de R/R, stator and wiring as well. Overcharging Will kill it all !! You have to messure !!

    Eather sucked in or pushed out: not good !!

    My advise: fix the problem or more very serious dammage will be done.
     
  16. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    Aggh - here we go again...

    That battery sounds like it has been over charged and pretty much boiled dry.

    So if nothing else, your decision to postpone tackling the RR defect, means that you now also need to buy a replacement battery.

    If you can afford it, I suggest obtaining a Yuasa battery appropriate for your VFR, and then make sure it is properly charged before installing it.

    PLEASE do not assume that is the end of your problems - before you ride off into the sunset, I strongly recommend that you take time to carefully work through "the drill" (post #9 on the link below) and note down all the results. You need to do the drill twice - once with the bike cold and then again after a 30+ minute ride by which time any heat related failures tend to become evident.

    http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthread.php/39277-How-to-fix-common-regulator-Stator-failures

    The basics are that all 4 elements of your charging system need to be in good order (Battery, Stator, RR and loom) and a fault in any one can damage some or all of the others. Given your previously reported high voltages observed at the battery I would be deeply suspicious of the witchcraft going on inside your current RR.

    The RR is meant to do two things - the rectifier stage takes the 3 phase AC arriving from the stator and simply turns it into unregulated DC whilst the regulator stage is meant to ensure the output voltage remains within a defined range and dumping any excess. Certainly if your RR is continually putting out in excess of 15 volts it sounds like it too needs replacement.

    So if you don't want your nice new battery killed off prematurely (they all die eventually) then if the results of the drill show unacceptable RR output, I suggest you order a quality replacement RR from these folks - http://www.roadstercycle.com/ .

    For a 5th Gen, you really should also spend time checking at least the charging system elements of the loom for loose or melted connections. You will see plenty of examples of what to look for in "the drill" thread referred to above - look very closely at the connectors joining the stator output wires to the RR - they are notorious for melt downs - and if those wires cross connect, or arc to the frame, you will be laying out big bucks for a new stator as well! Which will be a very bad day indeed!

    Once you are done, perhaps consider fitting a cheapo eBay voltmeter to monitor the system health, if nothing else it will allow you to spot if the charging system is in trouble - hopefully before you end up completely stranded.

    Good luck





    SkiMad
     
  17. Shawn855

    Shawn855 New Member

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    Yeah, I'll be getting a new R/R and battery very soon and then will recheck the voltages to make sure it's not overcharging the battery anymore. I charged the battery overnight and it was pretty drained so something's not doing it's job right.
     
  18. Shawn855

    Shawn855 New Member

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  19. H3nry

    H3nry New Member

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    MOSFET is not a brand, it is a type of transistor which is used in the regulator. These are NOT original equipment type R/Rs, they are made by companies unknown in China. Quality is unknown. However, I have been running a couple of MOSFET regulators from misterelectrical in the U.S. for the last six months, and so far they are working as advertised. I regard them as an experiment. The original Honda R/R is known to be quite unreliable, so anything is likely to be better. The ones I bought are supposed to be heavy duty replacements for Suzuki 'Busas and sold for about $40 ea. I have extensively rewired my 5th gen VFR800fi and my 3rd gen VF750C to try to correct the charging system's well known issues.

    I can say that these Chinese R/Rs have worked for me so far, but I'd also say they are not proven long term reliable. The best tested regulator is the Yamaha FET type. Plug and play will not be a long term fix for your Honda since the plugs are the main weak points in the wiring. Either replace the plugs with better high current types or eliminate the plugs.
     
  20. Shawn855

    Shawn855 New Member

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    Thanks for the additional info on the R/R. Any helpful advice in regards to the "My question now is how would I connect the second connector? On my currently installed R/R, it has one plug, then two straight wires that connect directly to the battery terminals. (+, -)" question? Since the other R/Rs are using just a basic 2 plug setup..
     
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