Coolant in Oil; Is My Head Gasket Blown?

Discussion in '1st & 2nd Generation 1983-1989' started by CyGuy126, Sep 27, 2015.

  1. CyGuy126

    CyGuy126 New Member

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    Hello All,

    I have a 1984 vf500f Interceptor. I've had this bike since 2010, it always ran good except that it would run hot when idling during SoCal summers. It appears that this is quite normal after reading through several posts. After getting me through college and sitting for about a year, I decided to get it going again. First, I had to bleed the air out of the clutch, then I noticed that it would start to run hot when I was traveling at 60+ MPH, then cool down when I idled and the fan kicked on, which was opposite of the problem it used to have. I added distilled water to the overflow reservoir and the radiator through the filler neck, still it would run hot. I should have not ran the bike at all until I fixed the problem but I'm an idiot and since the ride to work is really short, I thought it would be okay. Normally, I could get to work before the temp gauge would even reach halfway.

    About a week ago, I had to run an errand, so I rode it longer than usual and I noticed the temp gauge rising almost all the way up, so I pulled over in a parking lot. Then I noticed that my front right turn signal was blinking but not staying on, so I pulled the fuse cover off and looked at my fuses. The turn fuse was fine, I took a look at my fan fuse, twisted to clean some old corrosion and dust off and broke the fuse element. I know, I'm an idiot. I allowed my bike to cool, a bit then rode it the 4-5 blocks home. Needless to say, it was running hot.

    Next day, I ride it to work and instead of the temp gauge reaching halfway on the ride, to work it gets almost to the H. I forgot the fuse for the fan is out. Now, I really shouldn't be riding it. Same thing on the way home.

    My plan was to go through the cooling system. I bought a lower temp thermostat, engine ice, and a lower temp fan switch. I was going to pressure test the radiator and the cap and flush the system. I drained the coolant and noticed little white droplets of oil in my clean drain pan. Fearing the worst, I checked my dipstick and I saw white milky oil all over the dip stick. Check out the pics below.

    I don't have any white smoke coming out of my exhaust pipes but I haven't really ran the bike since seeing the milky white oil yesterday. I still flushed out the cooling system by running the hose through the radiator filler neck. I took off the drain bolts on the two forward cylinders and on the one on the water pump, ran the hose covered the water pump hole with my finger, let water run flush out the cylinders. I then did the same with distilled water until distilled water ran out of all holes. I left the drain bolts off and pulled the radiator, so the cooling system is open.

    From what I have researched, I think I blew my head gasket and I'm Fucked. If you remember back to a post regarding a Parts Bike in Los Angeles; I went and picked that up a month ago from DR FNORD for a case of beer and some registration and transfer fees (thanks again buddy). It is a 85 vf500f So I can potentially put my parts on that bike or put that motor on mine. Still am unsure of which route to take, but I think i still have a nice running 1st gen 500 in my hands.

    Finally my questions:

    Is it bad to leave the drain bolts and radiator off with no fluid?
    How do I know If I truly have a blown head gasket?
    If I put my parts on the 85, what should I do to store the 84 motor long term? Drain the oil? I want to drain the oil to see how much white is in there but not sure if I should.
    Can I replace the head gasket with the motor on the frame?
    How do I tell if the heads are warped?

    Thank you for reading my long and convoluted tale of idiocy. I appreciate any help you guys can give me. One detail I should mention is that I now live in Blythe, CA. It's in the desert and we have had 100+ degree weather for the last 4 months.

    20150915_165216.jpg 20150923_170134.jpg 20150926_173642.jpg 20150926_173719.jpg 20150926_173731.jpg 20150926_173740.jpg
     
  2. CyGuy126

    CyGuy126 New Member

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    alright so today after consulting with one of my buddies, I drained the contaminated oil out. Here is a pic of what came out.
    20150928_170820.jpg

    Here is a pic after I poured out the oil into a container to dispose of. Some unmixed coolant is visible on the bottom of the pan.

    20150928_173553.jpg 20150928_173558.jpg

    I then ran some regular oil through the crankcase, with the drain bolt and oil filter off, to try and flush out as much coolant as I could. Then I took it a step further, put the bolt and filter back on, put a little over a half gallon of old oil I had from the last oil change back in, plus some unused oil that I had, ran the bike for 30 seconds, turned it off, let it settle, then drained it out again. Here's what that looked like.

    20150928_174255.jpg

    Looks a bit better, at least I got out most of the coolant. I sealed her back up removed the battery and now she will sit until I am ready to go through the motor. In the process I answered most of my questions. Seeing how much coolant was in the oil, I will now probably replace both head gaskets, which will require that I remove the motor off the frame. To know if the heads are warped I will need to check tolerances, once I get in there. Finally the cooling system being left to dry out, is the least of my worries at this point. Feel free to chime in if anyone thinks differently.

    Thankfully I have a whole other bike to work with. My plan for now is to take all my undamaged parts and plastics and swap them onto the 85'. So this thread will turn into how I create one nice, reliable bike from two damaged ones. Stay tuned for my progress and more pictures.
     
  3. NormK

    NormK New Member

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    What I would do is put oil in the motor, water in the radiator and leave the radiator cap off and then run the motor for a while, get it up to temp and hopefully you will get the moisture to evaporate out of the crankcase. Leaving a motor sit with moisture in it is a death sentence
     
  4. CyGuy126

    CyGuy126 New Member

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    Thank you for your input NormK
    If I put water back in my cooling system and run the motor, won't I just get more water in my engine?

    I don't want to my motor to die! :frown-new:
    From what I've read, I think I'll put fresh oil back in, pull the plugs and let the motor turn over. Hopefully this will spew out more water/coolant. Then, I'll use paper towels to soak up what I can. Afterwards, I'll put the plugs back in, let the bike run for a minute or two and drain again. Hopefully then it can sit and not rust or not deteriorate for a while.

    Calling all Uber Gurus, Does that make sense?
    Is there a chance that I blew a water pump seal instead of a head gasket? Any quick tests to find out?
     
  5. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Cooling system pressure test is described in the FSM.
     
  6. CyGuy126

    CyGuy126 New Member

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    Thanks Squirrelman, I'll take a look.

    Tried removing the plugs and cranking the motor. No coolant... I suppose that's good news? Did run some fresh oil, ran it a bit, let it settle then drained again. Looks a bit darker. Put the rest of the gallon jug in there. 1.5 quarts will sit in there for a while, tired of trying to flush out all the coolant and itching to work on the 85.

    In other news, the 85 fired up and ran with full choke. Quits when I hit the throttle. I'll fiddle with it more tomorrow.
     
  7. NormK

    NormK New Member

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    I said fill the radiator but do not put the rad cap on, that way it will not build up pressure in the cooling system so it is very unlikely any water would enter the motor unless the hole/crack or whatever is big
     
  8. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Symptoms say you'll be cleaning the carbs b4 it runs right.
     
  9. CyGuy126

    CyGuy126 New Member

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    NormK I promise I won't let it sit this way for too long, but I don't want to risk getting more coolant/water in the motor, in the case it is something worse than a seal.

    Started work on the 85, check out the legendary 3 handled motorcycle!
    20150930_185446.jpg

    Looks like the crash had a pretty harsh impact, the previous driver got out with no broken bones though.
    20150930_185502.jpg

    Allen bolt securing the master cylinder was stripped pretty bad, 45 min of drilling with a screw extractor and a high powered plug-in drill along with trying various other methods and voila. Finally...
    20150930_191252.jpg 20150930_193002.jpg
    I swear that's not my hand. It belongs to my lovely assistant.

    The plastic sleeve that holds the throttle cables is broken, I'll have to switch it out with the 84. Some electrical tape and some grease then I ran out of time. This was all last night. I'll pick it up again tonight. I'm hoping the lack of one cable being pulled has something to do with it quitting. Guess I'll find out tonight.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2015
  10. CyGuy126

    CyGuy126 New Member

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    Electrical tape unnecessary there is a hole that secures the OEM RH control. Got that done.
    20151001_185219.jpg

    Idles rough, jumps up and down, still quits when I pull the throttle. Thought about swapping the carburetors.

    I went through the cooling system in the 85, there was some sludge and deposits throughout, here are some of the highlights.
    20151001_200230.jpg 20151001_200320.jpg

    Swapped out the fan switch and thermostat for 180F rated versions, then filled her with engine ice.
    20151001_203304.jpg 20151001_205901.jpg


    Pulled carburetors from both bikes in the hopes of swapping them. My 84 has a bunch of small vacuum lines, I'm thinking they are for CA's emission requirements. I don't really want to mess with capping ports and converting it. Not sure how big of a job that would be...
    20151011_201351.jpg


    Will it be easier to just clean the carbs of the '85 and leave the '84 carburetor on the '84?
     
  11. NormK

    NormK New Member

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    Clean the carbs and put the set back on the 84, keeps shit out and prevents bits getting lost
     
  12. CyGuy126

    CyGuy126 New Member

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    Yeah that's what I leaning towards. Thanks for the confirmation.
    Now I'll need to research, gather my sources and make a parts needed list.
     
  13. CyGuy126

    CyGuy126 New Member

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    It has been quite some time since I have posted any updates but I have made some progress.

    Cleaned the carbs and put them back on. The 85' now starts up and cranks when I turn the throttle!!
    20151027_204958.jpg
    Carb No. 3 was pretty dirty, slow and main jets clogged, and staining from old fuel indicated that the float bowl was leaking. I swapped the gaskets and the carb insulators (boots) out. I did remove the air cleaner base to help me access the screws on the carburetor top cover.

    I also removed the choke valves and the linkages. I was able to do this without pulling the cotter pins, it was tricky though.
    20151027_160411.jpg
    Some of the choke valves were sticking before I cleaned them.

    After removing the linkages and the air cleaner base, the carbs wanted to separate but I kept them together. Some of the synchronization springs came off but I took pictures and used the FSM to put them back after cleaning the carbs. A little stressful but not too difficult. After putting the carbs back on, I bottle fed in some fuel and it started right up and reved up when I turned the throttle. I noticed that the vacuum line from the fuel tank to the cylinder right below the carbs was missing, so I added some line. From what I read not having a line there would not have allowed fuel to come out of tank and probably had something to do with the bike quitting when I turned the throttle.

    Lessons learned:
    - Take lots of pictures
    - VF500F uses 040 V90 O-rings for the float bowl gaskets and Amazon has them for much cheaper
    than the O-Ring Store
    - The OEM screws are meant to be used with a Japanese driver and you get a much better bite with
    the driver from the OEM tool kit. Found a thread about this and am now considering investing in
    some JIS driver bits.

    Now I'm going to keep swapping out parts from the 84' that are in better condition, perform a good tune-up, and do all the carb synch, idle drop, etc. procedures needed after a carburetor service. Sorry if this thread is boring but it helps me to have a record of what I have done. I will stop posting to this once I have my moto in good running condition then post some more interesting or useful threads. Thanks for reading.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
  14. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    You done good ! :triumphant:
     
  15. ridervfr

    ridervfr Member

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    That paint can in the background is a carburetor soak kit right? Excellent product, bought the same thing a few years back. V = Viton, which means aerospace quality rubber. What else? Get your self a good carburetor synchronizer set-up, shameless plug here, Morgan Carb Tool, no mercury, excellent tool. Good luck and way to go :mech:
     
  16. CyGuy126

    CyGuy126 New Member

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    Yup, the paint can is a soak kit from NAPA. Worked pretty well considering I'm in CA and I've read that our stuff sux.

    Thanks for the tip on the Viton and the Morgan Carb Tool, I'll look into it.
     
  17. CyGuy126

    CyGuy126 New Member

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    Did some more wrenching over Thanksgiving weekend.

    The nipple on the reservoir for the coolant overflow was torn, so I used some epoxy from Ace to put it back together. Seems pretty robust.
    20151122_100349.jpg 20151122_095059.jpg 20151122_100400.jpg

    Swapped out the gear shift arm
    20151122_102945.jpg 20151122_102932.jpg

    Master Cylinders for brake and clutch had an aftermarket caps, swapped with stock.
    20151128_194310.jpg 20151128_194809.jpg

    Switched rear lights with flush mounts I had.
    20151126_115958.jpg 20151126_130737_Burst01.jpg

    Switched out the seal plate for the crankcase. The 85' was pretty chewed and my 84' had some whipped oil/coolant mixture on the inside. Cleaned it out well and realized I needed a new gasket. Ordered one on Bike Bandit and swapped it out when it came. Did an oil change while I was at it.
    20151128_171105.jpg 20151128_173247.jpg
     
  18. CyGuy126

    CyGuy126 New Member

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    Did some more stuff today!

    New Emgo glass fuel filter and K&N air filter. Old one was pretty nasty. I also noticed that the top of the air cleaner box had a crack so I put some of that same epoxy on it. It wasn't cracked all the way through but I decided to do some preventative work.
    20151213_141210.jpg 20151213_105719.jpg 20151213_105652.jpg

    Swapped out both front lights with some that came in a box with the 85'. The brackets were pretty warped and bent, had do a lot of un-bending with some vice-grip pliers. Did my best and they sit okay...
    20151213_141024.jpg
    Both front lights won't stay on with the key turned. If I hit the blinker, the one that stays on switches to the other side. There is also a mysterious white wire that was added in from the rear harness to the fuse box. On the plus side, they do both blink. I'll have to troubleshoot the wiring eventually.

    I just ordered a Morgan Carbtune can't wait till it gets here and I am back on the road!
     
  19. CyGuy126

    CyGuy126 New Member

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    So I still haven't synchronized the carbs but I started getting the itch to ride, plus I wanted to see how it ran. The first day I rode around for less than a mile and it was running good then at a stop it quit on me. I was able to start it and rev the engine and keep it up until I got back to my garage. I noticed that the hose form the air box wasn't connected.

    The next day, It ran much better but had a really high Idle 2-3K rpm. I turned down the idle and it seemed to be doing well, so I ran it for about ~15 miles around town. At a stop sign it quit on me again. When I turned it back on with choke it started fine but the idle stayed high even after taking the choke off. It stayed high at stops until I got back but it didn't quit on me.

    Does anyone know if the erratic idle and the bike quitting is a product of not having the carbs synchronized?

    Good news is the fan kicked on, temp sensor works and temps never got higher than halfway. Stayed at a third for most of the ride.
     
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