Battery draining while riding... What's going on?

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by SeaDub206, Jun 17, 2016.

  1. SeaDub206

    SeaDub206 New Member

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    I started having what I thought was a problem with a year-old battery. Suddenly, my 2003 VFR800A wasn't starting. I would put it on the tender for 24 hours or more at times, ride for 20 miles, and then go to start the bike and get nothing. The first time I flipped the switch, I could hear the usual hum but at a lower tone, and when I then went to hit the ignition, I got nothing. Not even clicking. I replaced the battery, but experienced the exact same problems. After the last time, I rode it home, took out the battery, and forgot about it for a month.
    A couple days ago, I put the battery back in the bike and checked the voltage. It was 27.6V (off). Yep, 27. I turned the bike on and off, let it sit, turned it off and on again like a bad modem, rode it around town and straight back home, turned it off and on again, and everything seemed gravy! Over all that time (about 45 minutes of riding, and a couple hours of just sitting), the voltage only went down to 26.5V. I didn't ride it for a day, but then today, it acted up again. When I went to turn it on this morning, it sounded totally normal and started up as smooth as ever. I ran a couple of errands nearby and it behaved normally. However, when I got back to it and turned it on to head home, the startup tone was much lower, just as it had been when I was having the problem. It turned on anyway and I started on home. On the way, my ABS light was blinking it me, as it had done the last time I parked it a month ago, as previously mentioned. Whenever I cut the throttle (put it in neutral, grabbed the clutch), the light would dim significantly, as would my dash and headlights. I made it home and turned off the bike. Of course, when I went to turn it on, it would give me a very low hum when I flipped the engine stop switch to on, and then rapid clicking upon hitting the starter. This was a new development from the old problem a month ago.
    My neighbor who races Honda bikes swears it's not the battery and I'd say I agree. He has suggested the rectifier or the stater, but has been wrong before and I'm hoping he's wrong about the stater this time.. Wondering where I should look, or if this problem seems obvious to anyone?
    Thank you so much!
    Colin
     
  2. RVFR

    RVFR Member

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    Ok, first off, welcome to the world of VFR crazies. SMH, That's a great great first post, Wow. But, that voltage is incorrect. Unless. So lets try this again. I'm not sure if it's your method of figuring out voltage, or the meter you are using is at fault. Before we here can even get a clue, that needs to be addressed. On the norm a 12v. system which VFRs and for that matter 99% of all vehicles today are. One could be seeing any where from 12.2v with a static battery test nothing on, key off, to 13.2 With it running it best be around a 14.xxxv reading on a fast idle. I want to say this sounds like the typical RR issue, but your numbers are throwing me off.
     
  3. OZ VFR

    OZ VFR Member

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    Something is not right, at 27v you would be frying all the electronics on the bike, and the battery would be boiled and the shape of a football.
    Check your meter with a known output.
    But is sounds as if your rectifier, stator, or both are stuffed.
     
  4. NormK

    NormK New Member

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  5. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    ^ +1 and beg borrow or steal another multimeter to do the checks +27 volts seems implausible as VERY bad things would be happening to pretty much anything electrical on the bike.

    When you get a chance please swing by the "Introductions" part of the forum to say hi to the rest of the folks on here and add a photo or two of your VFR or you will get folks raggin on you.


    As for "the drill" please note the quality of the test results depends on starting with a charged healthy battery, also note the tests need to be done twice - once with the bike cold and then again after its been out for a good 30 minute run so things have warmed up fully - as sometimes things like the RR and stator can test fine when cold but if the stator winding insulation fails as it heats up - instead of charging the battery it can drain it.

    Let us know how you get on - and maybe consider fitting a cheap eBay LED volt meter to allow you to keep an eye on the charging.

    If you find you do need to replacement components, "the drill" thread may ramble on but - it has plenty of hints on what to buy and what to avoid - so read first!



    SkiMad
     
  6. Knight

    Knight New Member

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    Trying to think of a logical explanation for the numbers.

    Perhaps it is set to the ammeter and returns 27 mA current?
     
  7. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    To get a real answer it is necessary to submit a picture of your battery.
     
  8. Jeff_Barrett

    Jeff_Barrett Member

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  9. mofo

    mofo New Member

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    Has the wiring harness recall been taken care of? I'd start there and proceed to "the drill"
     
  10. NormK

    NormK New Member

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    I'm not sure but I think the drill might even show how to set the multimeter to the right setting
     
  11. TA-Rocks

    TA-Rocks New Member

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    New meter test

    Hey SeaDub, Have you obtained another VOM for testing. We would probably all recommend using a different meter. The battery could not possibly have 26v on it while the bike is off. Even when it is on you will never see more than 15 volts unless you have serious issues. Did you get a chance to test again? I think many are curious of the problem you have there.
     
  12. NormK

    NormK New Member

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    He has probably forgotten on what forum he asked the question seeing it is his only post:smile:
     
  13. SeaDub206

    SeaDub206 New Member

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    Hey all! Sorry for the late response, I was just finishing up the semester and was slammed with finals!
    This is all very helpful, thank you! I will also go post in the introductions forum :)
    I have not yet had the chance to try the multimeter again, but will hopefully be able to take a look today. Going off of what I've been reading and hearing, this is sounding like a stator issue, but I will certainly check the wiring harness and do the "drill". When I get the numbers (hopefully today, but maybe not), I'll post back here.
    Thanks again, everyone! :D
     
  14. SeaDub206

    SeaDub206 New Member

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    UPDATE:
    Alright everyone, I seem to have made at least some sort of progress! I went through "the drill" and found that my stator is indeed done for. Though I'm having a hard time getting the cover off to get at it... Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I can get that cover off?
    Next, regarding the issue of voltage, the reason I had such high numbers was because I had the meter set to AC 500... whoops! I needed DC 20 I guess. Anyway, here are the numbers I got with that:
    Immediately after taking it off the tender: 13.7v
    On, idling: 12.27v
    At 1900 rpm: 12.29v
    At 5000 rpm: 12.49v
    I could only get the meter to read 13 volts or more when I had it at around 7000 rpm.
    This was the test "the drill" suggested for the R/R, does that mean the R/R is bad?
    In the thread with the drill, there was a link to a comprehensive flow chart that pointed (literally) to a bad stator. I arrived at this by testing the yellow wires and they registered as follows:
    A to B: .6 Ohms
    B to C: .7 Ohms
    C to A: .6 Ohms
    And then the ground test with the same wires:
    A to ground: .7 Ohms
    B to ground: .8 Ohms
    C to ground: .7 Ohms

    As I said above, this test pointed me to a bum stator, so I will start there with ordering the new stator (Bike Bandit, unless someone has another suggestion), and then do the test again as suggested by the flow chart.

    Thanks again, everyone! This has been very helpful
     
  15. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    Hmm Not so Fast!

    So those are numbers with the bike cold? To get a better picture you also need to put enough of the bike back together and take the bike for a 30minute + ride - basically to get all the electrical gremlins good and hot, and then repeat all those tests. Sometimes the little RR /stator critters test out fine when cold but become all rowdy when things heat up and instead of recharging your bike the battery is drained. Do not assume once you have found a fault in one item replacing it will fix things - sometimes stator problems can kill parts of the loom battery and RR so check. So post up the figures for the bike hot please.

    The wire to wire ohms figures all appear to be within spec (ie below 1.0 Ohms) so why do you suspect the stator? from those voltage figures my focus would be on the RR - and doing a diode check.

    Did you also check for any continuity between any of the stator wires to ground - they should not show any continuity. I assume you did that check with the stator to RR lead disconnected? Likewise you should check the AC volts coming from each potential pairing of the stator wires - ideally it should be 20ish at idle and rising to 60v+ at 5k. If the output on all three pairings is in range and roughly similar then I would be looking elsewhere. Note take care whilst doing these checks - never allow the probes to direct cross connect the yellow wires or provide a path to ground or you will see a very expensive bang!

    As for the stator housing cover once you have removed all the screws then feel around the edge - there are two small lips where the cover extends beyond the housing where you can carefully lever against to break the gasket seal. You will need to replace the gasket! I recall it took some persuasion to come free on mine. If the inside looks like some or all of the stator windings are a dark burnt toast colour with the distinct smell of fried electrical windings then you have found one item needing replacement. So please read through a few of the later posts in the drill about sources for parts - quite a few have named items where they have been let down by some aftermarket kit.

    Take care


    SkiMad
     
  16. SeaDub206

    SeaDub206 New Member

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    Thanks so much for the great response, SkiMad! I lost a lot of coolant while trying to get to the stator when I disconnected a hose, so now I'm waiting on that to arrive.. then I'll take it out for a spin!
     
  17. SeaDub206

    SeaDub206 New Member

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    Hey there, SkiMad! I did the test again after a 30-minute ride. The numbers are definitely lower than they should be, but remember: my battery is being drained while I'm riding. Here are my results:

    After 30 min, bike off:
    12.08v (DC)

    On, idle:
    11.38v (DC)

    1900rpm:
    11.28v (DC)

    5000rpm:
    12.65v (DC)

    On, engine off:
    11.22v (DC)

    Off:
    11.75v (DC)
    NOTE: Voltage kept going up as I waited, but I did not record these numbers or wait to see when it would stop climbing.

    Yellow Wires (pin-to-pin)
    A to B:
    0.6 Ohms
    B to C:
    0.6 Ohms
    C to A:
    0.6 Ohms

    All looks good there, but...

    A to ground:
    1.1 Ohms
    B to ground:
    0.8 Ohms
    C to ground:
    0.8 Ohms

    (It was at this point in post #9 that the included flow chart said the stator was done for)

    On, idle:
    0v (AC)

    On, 5000rpm:
    0v (AC)

    I did the two above tests because I was confused about the wording in The Drill and wasn't sure if these numbers mattered or not, so I figured better safe than sorry.

    On, pin-to-pin (yellow wires)
    A to B:
    10.3v (AC)
    B to C:
    12.6v (AC)
    C to A:
    8.8v (AC)

    On, pin-to-pin, 5000rpm:
    A to B:
    31v (AC)
    B to C:
    34v (AC)
    C to A:
    23v (AC)

    During this last test, my bike heated up to 250 degrees Fahrenheit, which I don't think has ever happened. I've only ever seen it hit 220 and that was when it was blazing hot outside and I was sitting in traffic. This was on a 75-degree day, in the shade.

    At least according to The Drill and the flow chart posted in The Drill, the results point at my stator. I'd just hate to take the cover off and have to wait for a replacement gasket if that ends up not being the issue. Do you think at this point that I should proceed to operate and try a new stator?

    Thank you again, all of you, for the help! This forum has been really great so far :)

    Cheers!
    Colin (SeaDub)
     
  18. mello dude

    mello dude Administrator

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    Park it, the tests point to your stator. But keep in mind your R/R could be toasted too.....
    You could replace the stator and retest or you could bite the bullet and add an R/R now. (Skip the VFRness)
    www.roadstercycle.com - get the FH020AA if you decide to go that route.
    Best price on OEM stator --- www.procaliber.com

    Oh yeah - charge up the battery and get it tested too!

    Good luck
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
  19. kennybobby

    kennybobby New Member

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    A little confusing, maybe it's the RR at fault?

    The resistance measurement of stator to ground appears to show a short to ground in the stator, but the pin-to-pin AC voltage test while running (idle and 5k) appears to indicate that the stator is working and generating an AC voltage that increases as revs go up. AC voltage at the battery is meaningless.

    The DC voltage test at the battery appears to indicate that the RR is not working to charge the battery, even though there is AC voltage from the stator.

    So doesn't this look like a bad RR?

    Side note: probably need to get at least a 1 Amp charger to get the battery up to spec, a tender is not sufficient to charge a dead battery.

    p.s. that flow chart could use some editing--way too complicated at 4 pages for what little it does.
     
  20. Knight

    Knight New Member

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    His stator voltage output is below par. Skimad posted ratings of 20V/60V but SeaDub measured at 10V/30V.
     
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