Engine oil grime

I really don't mean to start another oil war but...

Recently my oil sight glass became completely clouded over. When I popped off the clutch cover to clean it, this is what I found:

IMG_20180519_190427 by Pandemonium posted Jun 3, 2018 at 9:58 AM

IMG_20180519_190437 by Pandemonium posted Jun 3, 2018 at 9:58 AM

Places that came in contact with the engine oil were covered in a thick brown sludge. If I wiped it with a shop towel, it would turn the towel brown. It would mostly dissolve with a shop degreaser. That along with a scrub brush and Q-tips allowed me to get the clutch cover and site glass mostly cleaned up.

When I peered into the exposed engine side, it was mostly covered in the same sludge:

IMG_20180519_190422 by Pandemonium posted Jun 3, 2018 at 9:58 AM

IMG_20180519_191126 by Pandemonium posted Jun 3, 2018 at 9:58 AM

IMG_20180519_191137 by Pandemonium posted Jun 3, 2018 at 9:58 AM

IMG_20180519_192647 by Pandemonium posted Jun 3, 2018 at 9:58 AM

I haven't needed to open a crankcase on any engine before, so perhaps I'm naive to there being some build-up, but this seemed like a lot. After putting in new oil (synthetic Motul this time on the recommendation of my new mechanic), it's stayed clean and clear for about 1000miles.

Should I be concerned? Is there anything to do? It runs fine.

Some back story:
I've always used Valvoline motorcycle oil because it was locally available, seemed fine, and I didn't buy into the belief that oil brands matter much. The oil sight glass was always clear. A few months ago I had my old mechanic do a full lube, valve adjustment, & tune up just before I moved away. He was a Bel-Ray fan so that's the oil he put in.

The bike spent a couple months in storage while I was moving, and then I've been commuting on it almost daily. I couldn't tell if the sight glass was opaque or if the oil had just been overfilled so I did an oil change. That's when I figured out that I couldn't see through the sludge. I put some Seafoam in the crankcase, rode it for a couple days, then drained the oil and took off the clutch cover. The oil came out completely midnight black, even though it was just a couple hundred miles old.

After cleaning the clutch cover and site glass, I refilled with fresh Motul and it's stayed fine for a few weeks.

 

If my bike looked like that after being serviced I'd be getting another mechanic...

 

Haven't seen an engine in that state since the 70's when oil was not what it is now.

 

Heck I didn't even see engines that bad in the '70's.

That looks like the engine oil was baked in there. Do you do a lot of idling or very slow traffic riding?
JMO but I would get an temperature probe and check the actual oil temp after a longish ride. I'd be
uneasy with a crankcase that looked like that. Since he likes Bel Ray, I wonder if he put in 2 stroke oil
by mistake? I would definitely do some more investigating. Even Pennzoil shouldn't do that after only
a short time in the engine.

 

I'm going to assume you haven't driven 100,000 miles on the same oil change, but your engine should look like this.

IMG_0158 by Pete Smith, on Flickr

IMG_0157 by Pete Smith, on Flickr

 

Thanks for the replies and info so far.

Forgot to mention: this is a 1999 5th Gen with 38k miles.

Luckily I've moved so I have a new mechanic now. I do most my own wrenching for anything up to moderate work. Unfortunately I'm learning the guy I had been using wasn't very good.

I'm the second owner and the bike has been my daily commuter for about 6 years. For the last year, that means a 15mile highway commute in northern California. I'm usually at highway speeds and the coolant temp stays around 175f. Before that, I was commuting across downtown Seattle traffic. That was often low speeds or stopped in traffic, and during the summer the fan would run a lot, but coolant temps would stay within proper range. I suppose the oil could have been cooking.

I always do oil and filter every ~5k miles. Other than the one time by my old mechanic, I've done every oil change since I bought it. The previous owner had everything done at a Honda dealership.

I'll find a temperature probe and check temps after riding to/from work. It's possible the damage was done in that slow Seattle gridlock but I figure I would have noticed the sight glass problem sooner. I've been riding it in Cali for about half a year.

Besides a full engine teardown with meticulous cleaning, is there anything else to be done? It runs great at all speeds, idles fine at all temps, and pulls hard. I adore my bike, maintain it meticulously, and planned to ride it until I was one of the guys you read about with 150k miles.

 

I don't think I'd do a full engine teardown and clean. That seems a bit excessive, but I would keep
an ear open for odd noises and watch for increased oil consumption. Also I think I would do a valve
inspection, just for my own satisfaction. Maybe even run a shorter mileage than normal oil change.
Again. That engine is just sooooo nasty.

 

Clean what you can, & ride it. I'd take with caution (read that as supiscion) any servicing your previous mechanic is surposed to have done...

What colour is your brake & clutch fluid?
& did you ever get the forks serviced?

 

OK, thanks.

I agree a teardown seems excessive but I hate to see my baby in such a nasty state. On the other hand, I recently did all-new upgraded suspension (DMR front, Nitron back) when all it needed was fork seals so apparently I'm a sucker for excessive.

I'll plan to change the oil again soon, and maybe run some Seafoam or other crankcase cleaner before every oil change to try to cut down some grime. I just had the valves adjusted 6k miles ago, but it was by my old mechanic so now I'm suspicious.

The other thing that makes me suspicious of the valve adjustment state is that it's recently become slightly harder to start when cold. For years, with the engine cold I would need to set the "choke" about halfway, it would fire up instantly, and I could completely close the "choke" within 1-2 seconds of the engine starting. More recently, I have to set the "choke" as far as it will go. It will still fire up instantly, but just barely idling and sometimes it will die. Within ~5 seconds the idle will climb and I can close the "choke". Other than that, it runs perfectly.

I'm trying to think of any parts that would be most adversely affected by having that build-up. Anyone think it would be worth de-gunking the oil cooler? Seems like it could have trouble transferring the heat out with so much grime, which could cause worse oil overheating problems. Partzilla says they are no longer available new.

 

Both fluids are still very clear and light. That said, it's coming up on a year so I should probably add it to the list soon.

One fork seal just started leaking so I took the opportunity to replace all the internals with the DMR cartridge kit. My new mechanic did the work and he seems infinitely more competent and knowledgeable than my last.

Thanks for the tips.

 

If you want to get into that then Acatone / paint thinners will do a fair job cheaply..

Personally, I'd only do it if I had to remove it for another reason.

 

i used to work at a mc shop where the owner always charged customers for premium $6/quart oil but used cheap $1.50 Dollar store unrated crap instead.

 

Don’t waste your money putting in expensive systhetic YET. Run some high detergent light weight dinosaur oil with new filters a couple of times, then switch to a good synthetic. Surfaces you see are not bearing surfaces, fresh oil will will pumped through all the important passages into the bearings. Looks like the polymers in the old oil got too hot, that won’t happen with pure synthetics.

 

Good suggestion. Thanks.

Any recommendation for a high detergent oil? Is that better or worse than something like Seafoam added to existing oil?

 

That may not be anything, but it could be signs of rings sticking, maybe burnt valves or valve seats due to the burned/roasted oil, and a subsequent loss of compression. If it were mine I would run a compression check at least, and a leak down test if you have the equipment.

 

Don’t have recommendations on brands, just make sure it is made for motorcycles. No ‘miracle’ additives either, not good for wet clutches.

 

what ?? too light oil could do damage, eh ? IF i recommended i'd recommend 10-40wt only.

might be good to clean oil pickup strainer screen ?

just keep riding, not worrying.

 

Use the weight recommended, run for a couple hundred miles, then save it for your car or lawn mower! Repeat, then put in synthetic!

 

You said the oil sight glass was clouded over. Was this a white film?

 

Check out the photos, no white film just burnt oil film.