I have been at H-D

Discussion in 'Anything Goes' started by Big_Jim59, Nov 10, 2018.

  1. Big_Jim59

    Big_Jim59 Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,957
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Map
    The M8 engines solved some of the stress issues with the twin cam.
     
  2. FJ12rydertoo

    FJ12rydertoo Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,245
    Likes Received:
    270
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Platte City, MO
    Map
    One of the things that really gets my goat with the twin cam engines is the lack of notification to the owners
    and lack of responsibility by HD. If you brought your twin cam in because the cams were damaged by poor
    lubrication, HD would fix your bike. But they made no effort to notify twin cam owners there could be a
    problem with the engine. They just kind of hung the owners out to dry.

    You'd think after 100 years of building basically nothing but V-twins, they could at least get it right.

    And, seriously, the bike with its engine, which isn't mounted solidly to the frame, and the swingarm, which isn't
    mounted solidly to the engine or frame, is supposed to actually not wiggle its ass off in bumpy curves.

    Engineers? We don' need no stinkin' engineers!
     
  3. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    1,969
    Likes Received:
    548
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Location:
    London
    Map
    When the bike I see designed for a left oval or a drag strip you don't need to make it handle... or care.

    Also why make it handle well when it will struggle to get to the next petrol station unless you stay at 50 or less...lol

    I like Harley's as they are different and not like the jap bikes.
    Would I own one?
    Maybe a Chips version....
     
  4. FJ12rydertoo

    FJ12rydertoo Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,245
    Likes Received:
    270
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Platte City, MO
    Map
    "Also why make it handle well when it will struggle to get to the next petrol station unless you stay at 50 or less...lol"

    Ah, but there is a substantial difference between handling well, and simply going around a bumpy corner and staying
    in control of the bike. Shoot, Nader helped get the Corvair killed over a smaller problem than that. :)
     
  5. reg71

    reg71 Poser Staff Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    9,756
    Likes Received:
    269
    Trophy Points:
    128
    Location:
    Atascadero, California, United States
    Map
    Man, that was a long read, but interesting. Plus i got off on a tangent reading about Buell.

    To the OP, sorry about the job, but thanks for your insight.

    I worry about Harley tanking. Not because I believe they didn't earn a busted nose based on some marketing decisions they made. I'm still pissed about what they did to Buell, but the article that Samuel linked links to another interesting article about Buell that is worth reading.

    I worry about Harley tanking because it's just one more example of an American icon not being able (possibly) to adjust to changing times and continue to produce something we, as Americans, can be proud of.

    I still think that one day I'll eventually own a Harley, but I don't think it would ever be my only bike. It would be the bike I rode around when I just wanted to cruise (slowly) and soak in nature and the melody of the potato potato potato exhaust note and think back to my childhood.

    On another note, my little sister still rides the 75 Superglide that my dad used to load the whole family up on, sis on in front of dad almost on the tank, then Dad, then me, then my step mom and the stepped up seat in the back. We had to choose either to look to the left or to the right because we were so packed in. good times.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018
  6. Big_Jim59

    Big_Jim59 Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,957
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Map
    I agree with you.

    We had a 6 dealer gathering. All the dealer's team members rode to a central location for lunch. This meant that we were about 3 hours away. I rode my Buell M2 Cyclone (which did very well on the trip) and it stood out from everything else. One of the corporate top-brass guys commented, upon seeing my Buell, how cool the Buell was. I said "I'll bet Harley wishes they had that brand back" and he nodded in agreement.

    I love the Motor Company for the American lore, and the icon that it is. I don't like the fact that the faithful H-D customer has put Harley in a straight-jacket.

    I will probably own a Harley in the future but I will get one at rock bottom prices. Prices have already started to decline but it's nothing like it's going to be.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  7. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    6,120
    Likes Received:
    853
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Desert Southwest
    I think your opinion of their "pretty good customer base globally" doesn't exactly come with many numbers attached to it either, but that is merely my observation after reading your post. ;)

    You want numbers?, how about some of these apples: https://www.statista.com/statistics/252220/worldwide-motorcycle-retail-sales-of-harley-davidson/

    2018 doesn't look to be getting any better...
     
    Gator likes this.
  8. REVTMOLO

    REVTMOLO New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2018
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Charlottesville, VA
    Map

    LOL... Touche' good sir. Touche. :Bravo:

    Those numbers DO show a sharp decline in sales which shows the bubble (that blew the motorcycle craze beyond anyone's expectations) is trending down. That is not exclusive to HD, though I hear Indian is actually doing surprisingly well these days.

    It also shows (As I said) a pretty good customer base on a global scale. 150000 Domestic and 100,000 international sales. In all of my international travels (London, Sydney, Canada, Melbourne and Hong Kong) I have seen at least one Harley on the street. Ask anyone (whether they ride or not) to name 3 motorcycle brands and Harley will probably make every list. That doesn't make it a good bike. Just that they have that recognition everywhere.

    I'm not an HD fanboy by any stretch of the imagination. The only Harley I'd even consider is the Softail Breakout, and the price tacked to it makes it a total no-go. Could I? Sure. Would I, nope. I just wont spend that much cash on a toy.
     
  9. Big_Jim59

    Big_Jim59 Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,957
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Map
    I talked to a buddy of mine this week. He is a motorcycle tech for a big 4 metric dealer. He said that before the big motorcycle craze, bike shops were low overhead/low margin affairs. The stores were in low rent parts of town. Then came the big corporate money that saw bikes as the new cool investment and it was for a while. But the bloom is off the rose. The Boomers with deep pockets are headed for assisted living and not Surgis. He opined that he just needed another 15 years to make it through till retirement but he was worried about the nature of the industry at this point.
     
  10. REVTMOLO

    REVTMOLO New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2018
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Charlottesville, VA
    Map
    That sounds like a very familiar story. The market is also FLOODED with ridiculously low priced bikes when compared to new.

    A guy I ride with is looking for a Yamaha Stryker. We found a 2013 at a dealer about 100 miles away with (get this) under 1000 miles for $4000. That is 1/3 the cost of new. What has changed between the 2013 and 2018 Stryker? Not much if anything at all. Sure you don't get a warranty but who cares at that price point?

    It's not just Yamaha either...This is the case across the board. People buy bikes, don't ride them much (for various reasons), eventually get tired of them taking up space in their garage and sell them off. Some try to get a lot of cash back on thier "investment" but it wont sell because there are too many other's selling for so much less than theirs. They will eventually wear down and cut the price just to get rid of it.

    I feel kind of bad for dealer's right now. They have a steep mountain to climb and the higher they try to go the thinner the air gets.
     
  11. Big_Jim59

    Big_Jim59 Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,957
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Map
    The dealers have one thing going for them. They can get you financed. If you have cash the world is your oyster as far as buying used bikes is concerned. I just sold my VTR Superhawk and my CB1000 Big One for $2200 each. Both had around 25K miles but both were in great condition. I had them listed for $3000 for a year with zero result. I lowered the price and they moved. I miss them but now I have some money back in my motorcycle fun account. I am now pretty choosy about the bikes I plan to buy. I will be driving hard bargains in the future.
     
  12. REVTMOLO

    REVTMOLO New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2018
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Charlottesville, VA
    Map
    When I bought my Victory vegas (Used, private sale) I financed it through my credit union. Maybe the dealer can help in poor credit /no credit situations, but anyone with even a fair credit score can pull off their ownership financing.

    Your story of selling your bikes is exactly what I am talking about; The market is flooded. I'm going to try to sell my 96 Magna in the spring. It's a really nice bike with a lot of custom work done. I'd like to get $2500 out of it. I'll be thrilled if I can get $2000 and unsurprised to see it stay put with offers of $1000. Chances are if it goes that low I'll just keep it in my stable.
     
  13. Bat-1

    Bat-1 New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2018
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Aiken, SC
    Map
    That's hilarious ... and so true.

    As someone who buys low and sells not quite as low I can vouch for how cheap used bikes can be had for. Basic story goes like this:

    Boy always wanted a motorcycle
    Boy buys new motorcycle (often for crazy price)
    Boy (choose as many as apply): has children; disapproving wife/gf ; friends that get out of motorcycling; a close call; a mechanical issue
    Boy lets motorcycle sit for 1 to 5 years
    Boy faces truth and tries to sell at "book value"
    Boy realizes "book value" is largely irrelevant
    Boy just wants the damn thing out of his garage
     
  14. Gator

    Gator Insider

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2012
    Messages:
    5,201
    Likes Received:
    811
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Location:
    Boynton Beach, FL
    Map
    Over 100 years to get it right? And they still have problems. They are NOT an American made bike, but American assembled. Harley makes more money on their Chinese made apparel than they do on bikes.

    1930's tech is still rocking in HD's. lol
     
  15. REVTMOLO

    REVTMOLO New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2018
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Charlottesville, VA
    Map
    I used to believe that as well but as it turns out that isn't the case. It's been a few years since I was corrected on that so for the life of me I dont know where that figure was pulled from. Probably some shareholders info that was shared.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  16. Gator

    Gator Insider

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2012
    Messages:
    5,201
    Likes Received:
    811
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Location:
    Boynton Beach, FL
    Map
    I never believed that apparel alone was more revenue but if you add up licensing of apparel, (T's, shirts, pants, jackets, shoes, underwear, socks, do-rags ect) jewelry, Key chains, wallets, vehicles like the Ford 150 HD, sportswear, toys, books, Pictures, clocks, lighters, glasses, safes, rugs, flasks, thermometers, booze, beer, mugs, glasses, plates, knives, cookware, Christmas decorations........ It is a huge portion of their revenue stream. And more importantly it feeds the HD crowd loyalty. Nothing like Chinese trinkets to keep you faithful. lol
     
  17. FJ12rydertoo

    FJ12rydertoo Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,245
    Likes Received:
    270
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Platte City, MO
    Map
    Yeah, I was reading about their problems and they said that while motorcycle sales were down, overall profits were up.
     
  18. REVTMOLO

    REVTMOLO New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2018
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Charlottesville, VA
    Map
    They cut a tremendous amount of operational costs. That is why they turned a profit while selling less bikes. Hilariously they are pitching like a business success...
     
  19. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Messages:
    6,120
    Likes Received:
    853
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Desert Southwest
    Easy Rider is fading off into the sunset, only to be remembered by the large oil stain on the garage floor. Maybe they could start working on a new half ton electric bike to save them from the dumpster.....
     
  20. Big_Jim59

    Big_Jim59 Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,957
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Map
    Here is another very likely story:

    Old guy buys expensive Harley
    Old guy buys all the upgrades and chrome to impress other old guys.
    Old guy rides less and less
    Old guy stops riding after surgery or a fall or just because.
    Bike sites for years unused
    Widow or family sells old guy's bike to liquidate the estate. Once again "book value" is largely irrelevant
    Bike hasn't run in years. Tires are shot. Needs work. Executor of the estate just wants is gone.

    Multiply this scenario by thousands.
     
Related Topics

Share This Page