Brake Problem Not Brake Related?

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by ZenkiGuy, Apr 18, 2019.

  1. ZenkiGuy

    ZenkiGuy New Member

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    Long story short, brake pads were feeling weak and started getting brake grab in the front every now and then.

    I replaced brake pads, they were shot, with new EBC FA261HH all around. Everything went smooth replacing them except the left brake caliper.

    The left brake pad of the left brake caliper kept acting like it didn't want to stay in position and kept popping out when putting the caliper onto the disc to mount. I finally got the caliper on but it acted like it wasn't wanting to fit properly as if the brake pads were the incorrect type. Cleaned bobbins, installed new pins and orings, cleaned retainers. Unsure of when brake fluid has been changed but fluid looked great, pistons move fine and no leaks from caliper/piston anywhere.

    I rode it around the block to see if I could clear it up or feel anything and brakes grabbed entire time, bad and even after a block of riding it glazed the rotor, pad and there's some scoring on the SMC bracket (not sure if that was there before or not). I've been told it may be the SMC but that seems to be fine as well even though I have a new one I can replace it with. Brake lever/rear pedal felt great too.

    I took the caliper up to a local motorcycle shop and they said that a caliper wouldn't do that and it's something relating to the front axle or something isn't installed correctly with the front forks. I wanted to see if anyone here has had an issue like this where it's not the brake caliper/pad but the front axle/fork.

    Previous owner reinstalled forks with DMR internals. Bike rode great up until these new brake pads.

    I just want to see if anyone has had a similar issue before I start randomly tearing things apart or take it to a shop and possibly have money wasted. Or if it's as simple as having the calipers and SMC rebuilt.

    Thanks for any help as now I'm just confused on where to start digging
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    At a quick guess, I think you have the spacers for the axles on the wrong sides...
     
  3. ZenkiGuy

    ZenkiGuy New Member

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    So flip the spacers; I'll take the rim off and double check that with the diagram tomorrow. Now it makes me wonder if anything else is reversed..
     
  4. FJ12rydertoo

    FJ12rydertoo Member

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    You don't specify what year, but on my '99 the large spacer is on the right side, small spacer on the left.
    Yours pretty much looks like mine.

    Did you push the pistons back into the caliper?
     
  5. ZenkiGuy

    ZenkiGuy New Member

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    I have a '98
    - Pistons were all the way in, not frozen, moves freely, no leaks from any piston/SMC. Before mounting the left caliper to the disc, if you put the pads in, the piston side pad is fine. The left side pad pops out from the top (retainer bracket) acting as if there isn't enough area for the pad to sit and pops out from the top. If I get them to fit without popping out on their own, the caliper doesn't want to fit smoothly on the disc and rubs against it (as per the pictures).

    Since this original post, I've taken the caliper to a 2nd shop for another opinion and they also say the caliper is fine. I don't see how it could be an axle issue when I'm having issues with the pad BEFORE mounting it to the brake disc. Also, I've noticed the SMC bracket slightly hits the disc when installing it. I've also replaced the slider pins and orings with grease and same issue.

    Again, no issues until these new EBC pads and it's only giving me an issue on one caliper and one pad. I'm thinking it's the EBC pads themselves as numerous people have told me they've had issues recently with EBC pads not fitting correctly.
    ~Next thing to check off the list tomorrow:
    - Check to make sure front axle is aligned properly and spacers are installed correctly
    - Check runout of discs (even though I'm having issues before installing the caliper)

    Things I'm thinking about doing if that doesn't fix:
    - Order new Honda OEM pads to see if I have the same issue (or other aftermarket non-EBC) of the left pad popping out of the caliper
    - Order a 2nd left caliper to see if my caliper is the culprit

    Thanks for all the replies
     
  6. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    that's why the spacer comment... just switch them around - shouldn't take more than 15mins & won't cost a thing.
     
  7. ZenkiGuy

    ZenkiGuy New Member

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    I'll try that tomorrow when it stops raining. Hopefully that's the simple fix to a stupid problem. I couldn't find a diagram online for the axle/axle spacers. How is the correct fitment of them?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
  8. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    You're overthinking this. The road to hell is paved with the bodies of people that attempted seemingly simple repairs without the aid of a factory service manual. Do what the nice folks have suggested, pull the wheel, switch the spacers, and you will have your answer. Best of luck.
     
  9. ZenkiGuy

    ZenkiGuy New Member

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    Doing that tomorrow. I just find it weird that the pad doesn't stay in place even BEFORE putting it on the brake disc. But I'll do that first thing tomorrow and let y'all know. Thanks for all the help.
     
  10. FJ12rydertoo

    FJ12rydertoo Member

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    According to the FSM for my '99 the right side spacer is longer than the left side spacer, so it sticks out from the wheel bearing further.
    If you see more spacer on the right side, you've got it in there correctly.

    But seriously, if you're going to do this kind of work you really do need a FSM.
     
  11. Doug7200

    Doug7200 New Member

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    It could be the camera angle, but the aluminum float inserts look bent and the disc appears to be angled. This would allow the disc to sit angled in the caliper and wear both parts as shown.

    I suspect the they disc float inserts were damaged changing a tire, or just worn out.

    Take a good look.
     
  12. ZenkiGuy

    ZenkiGuy New Member

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    Aluminum float inserts being the bobbins of the brake discs?
     
  13. ZenkiGuy

    ZenkiGuy New Member

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    So update: Still having rubbing issues. Took the front rim off, spacers were correct, axle straight, re-greased/re-installed.

    I put the caliper back on and no rubbing; I thought, horray! - maybe the axle was slightly off centered. No rubbing up until this point. Re-install brake lines and noticed instantly the left pad doing the same thing as it originally was doing; popping out from the top. I noticed this only happens when I tighten down the ONE specific SMC brake banjo bolt as shown in video 1. When I tighten it down I'm able to get the caliper on the disc but it rubs (as seen in video 2). I had the caliper on with the brake hoses un-installed and it wasn't rubbing what so ever.

    Before I start throwing parts at it, wondering if you guys have any other ideas..
    Video 1:
    Video 2:
     
  14. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    Has the bike been down on that side ?
     
  15. Doug7200

    Doug7200 New Member

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    Yes, the aluminum discs that allow the disc to float on the carrier.

    The picture makes the parts look bent or damaged.

    The disc, carrier and/or inserts can be bent fairly easily if the bike falls, crash, standing on the wheel to change a tire, etc.
     
  16. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    Ok, Take calliper off. Place a rod through one of the bolt holes until it JUST touches the disc. Secure it at that point - gaffer tape is fine.
    Spin the front wheel slowly.

    If the rod moves or has space between it & the disc at any point then your disc is warped.
     
  17. ZenkiGuy

    ZenkiGuy New Member

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    I'll check the bobbins tomorrow. I cleaned them a couple weeks ago and didn't see any bends but I will do that. I'm leaning towards, what I originally thought, is the SMC needing to be cleaned/rebuilt as the pads DON'T rub unless I put that specific banjo bolt into the SMC > puts pressure on the caliper > pad pops out/moves inward to the discs.

    Thanks for all the help
     
  18. FJ12rydertoo

    FJ12rydertoo Member

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    If you tighten the banjo bolt with no pad in the caliper, can you see which piston/s move? The SMC should have no
    affect on the front caliper pistons, only the rear piston, and then only if the wheel is turning.

    Have you disassembled the calipers at some point?
     
  19. fink

    fink Member

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    Installing a banjo should have no relation to caliper movement, as its going into a solid body.

    Can you do some video footage or a few decent pics looking across the disc into the mounted caliper with no pads and one with pads for each side. At caliper level so we can see where it is rubbing. It sounds metal on metal still
     
  20. Darth Vader

    Darth Vader New Member

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    The caliper slides on its mounting bracket so are the slides lubricated and the caliper moves ? I had the same problem getting the pad in properly because the caliper wasnt pushed home fully .
     
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