Here we go again....97 vfr dies and needs a tow...by my wife luckily

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by bigoledave, May 21, 2019.

  1. bigoledave

    bigoledave New Member

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    Ok...here we go. If you see some old posts on this bike..it has been sitting for a looong time.

    97 vfr....just took apart and thoroughly cleaned the carbs....new plugs....

    It started right up and idled good....so....I buttoned it up and took
    a SHORT test drive down the street...ran well. But....it started to stall at idle. I adjusted
    the manual cable-idle screw adjuster uo a bit....this may have been the first indication
    that something was not right in the fuel-fuel tank-lines-fuel pump-lines-carn "system" while
    Thinking that is was "probaby ok"...I rode it then down a big hill by my house.
    It then Stalled...*&^()^%$
    .tried to start it....lots of blue grey smoke as
    it sputttered away while I cranked away. I checked the on valve beneath the tank.
    Pointed it down to ..I assume.. full on. I looked at the new whitish
    cheap plastic fuel filter and saw air...and some gas. I took off the
    side panel and held the new inexpensive fuel pump in my hand to feel
    the pulses....they seemed erratic ?? I wiggled the wire connector and
    the same thing. CALLED THEWIFE!!!! She came down with jumper
    cables...once is a while it sputtered a bit but no luck. Using a clothesline ties
    to my from forks...she towed be back up the house at about walking pace.

    SOOOOOO....I removed tha tank, will drain it tomorrow and refill
    with new gas....and put a voltmeter on the input to the fuel pump.
    I will also drain all four carbs to start fresh.

    My "theories"

    1) Bad gas
    2) Bad fuel pump * though it is almost new...a cheapy from Ebay...
    3) Air in the fuel system I ( should I have bled the gas line to the carbs???)
    4) Weird electrical problem

    More tomorrow after I cook off and try some tests.

    Comments--suggestions--welcome!!

    Dave
     
  2. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    Certainly sounds like it just ran out of fuel in the carbs, the fuel tap and fuel pump would be my primary targets. I think "bad gas" would be a problem from the get-go.
    Does fuel flow freely by gravity when you disconnect the pump and open the fuel tap?
    Does the pump flow fuel at whatever is the prescribed rate (900mL/minute or 75mL in 5 seconds)?

    There is a prescribed method in the service manual to jumper the power to the pump for this test.
     
  3. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    first, drain the float bowls.

    anytime a bike haS been stored for a looooooong time it's a good idea to drain and flush the fuel tank to remove any condensed water and stale fuel. your cheapie fuel pump won't last long.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2019
  4. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    Great plan..

    Mistake no 1 & 2.

    Great to make them feel more valued - LOL

    Ok, As someone who has had almost exactly the same issue on my CBR400r - what happens next is you will now re-strip your carbs to clean the crap out that you have just put into them. The tank ALSO has 'more than likely' put crap into the fuel lines / pump - so you WILL HAVE TO FLUSH THESE - WITH FRESH FUEL. Then check the plugs again as most likely they may need cleaning..
     
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  5. bigoledave

    bigoledave New Member

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    OMG>>>>>I think I know what it is...and it is CRAZY.

    Ok...months ago I had starting and running issues......when it "cranked" it
    would sometimes "lock up".... I found the carbs all cruddy and even stuck floats
    in some. So..at that time the GAS ( tank valve always left on) flooded the
    hell out of the engine....even filling some with gas I concluded which caused
    the "lock up" when hitting the starter. Finally lately, I removed the carbs
    for the second time, did a bang up job of cleaning them, put in new plugs
    and hoped for the best.

    So...when I was starting it for the first time a few days ago, it immediately
    was spewing a LOT of blue smoke and would not idle at all. Days
    later I tried to start it with the fuel tank valve off ( by mistake). It
    sputtered like mad and again threw a large blue smoke cloud. After turning
    on the valve.....it started up and idled fine. (Now go to my post yesterday
    to see how it didn't run in my first road test.)


    Now the crazy part.....today when I removed the oil level dip stick,,,,bike on center stand..about
    a half pint or so of REALLY thin oil just flowed OUT all over the floor. (!) This
    liquid I think is a mixture of gas....and oil...and it is WAAAY overfilling the
    crankcase!!! So.......when you try to start it, the vacuum level in the sealed
    air input box must be SUCKING this gas-oil mixture in to the cavity of the
    airbox via the crankcase ventilator system. Sooo.....now, the carbs suck the mixture of air-gas-and oil in the air velocity
    tubes. It kind of ignites....but burns super oily and causes major misfire and"blue smoke:".

    Soooooooo,,,,today I will drain the "oil" and replace, pull out the plugs....crank it
    a bit with no plugs to clean out the cylinder....then reassemble everything.
    This crazy long series of events I THINK is behind all the problem.
    In yesterday's mini-road test....it ran pretty well for the 30 second flat road
    test....but then I went down a steep hill with some brake decell....which I
    think caused the "liquid" in the crankcase to slosh to a point where the
    crankcase ventilation to the airbox system allowed LIQUID to enter the
    carb air intakes.

    Eureka..( maybe!!)
     
  6. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    ok so are you going to fix the Tap & the floats?
    For the fuel to enter the engine is first gets past the tap, then past the float valves. When you fixed the carbs did you set the float heights>?
     
  7. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    just a second, my man Pete, the gen4 has non-adjustable floats.
     
  8. bigoledave

    bigoledave New Member

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    Right..no adjustment features on these carbs
     
  9. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    phew - just fix the tap then...
     
  10. ridervfr

    ridervfr Member

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    Personally, I would take the plugs out and use a socket on the end of the crank and turn it over by hand, this way its easier on your rods than using the electric starter. Did you over haul the carburetors yet? 22 year old carburetors have some perished stuff in them fer sure.
     
  11. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    ok even if you can't adjust the floats you are still leaking fuel past the needle valves to get into the engine.
    So they still either need too be replaced or fixed - which means pulling the carbs off.
     
  12. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    Fresh gas may indeed help, but only if residues of old goop have not already completely clogged up carbs and fuel lines and filters.

    As for any 20+ year old tank I assume you have also checked it is not suffering from rust? Chinese fuel pumps are not known for reliability or quality control - a decent fuel pump is rarely cheap.
     
  13. bigoledave

    bigoledave New Member

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    OK Ok....FIXED!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Update:
    1) Drained a huge amount of super thin "oil-gas" fluid.
    2) Put in new Valvoline 20-50w
    3) Pulled tank and air box top off......WOW...oily liquid was pooled in corners of the airbox. The entire
    inner surface was oily....looking down the carbs...oily also.
    4) Pulled all the plugs.....all dark-oily.
    5) Tested the function ( is it pumping??) of the fuel pump. ( fine...)


    Next---
    Cranked the engine w no plugs for a few seconds.
    Put in new plugs.
    Fired it up with tank sitting backwards and no airbox top or filter.

    It immediately fired up and idled ..running on the "old " gas that was in the bowls.
    Slight rev-ups showed excellent synch of the visible slides.

    But...bummer...the exhaust was very smokey....blue gray.
    I figured I hag ruined the engine ( scored walls...ruined valve guides.
    I shut it off.....then an hour later buttoned up the bike ..but without the
    air filter in....and fired it up. Still smokey exhaust. I then remembered my
    1960's cure....S T P......and drove it 6 miles to get some. RAN LIKE A NEW BIKE>>AWESOME!!...I think the
    smokiness has diminished alot.....so I am encouraged. Tomorrow I am
    going to drain some oil...add the STP....and hope for the best. The bike
    is pretty darn nice....I am keeping it no matter what. I will send pics on
    my profile soon to see some of the mods.
     
  14. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    You would have had plenty of oily residue sitting in the exhausts, so no surprises that it smoked badly when first run. Probably needs an "Italian Tune-up" i.e. ride it like you stole it for a bit...
     
  15. bigoledave

    bigoledave New Member

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    BBBBB BRILLIANT! I am putting the STP on the shelf thanks to your comment. Of COURSE it
    has oily crap in the system still! Thanks very much. I may do a slightly toned down modified Italian Tune up.
    Still have high hopes of making it to my 72'nd birthday party in 4 months!
    I see an 83 VFR in your profile. I bought one of those brand new....cool bike
    but mine was so new the camshafts wore out before the redesign-recall took affect.
     
  16. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    as is said - DONT TONE DOWN THE TUNE UP - too much !

    Start it - don't let it idle but take for a good ride - 30mins +. Once the engine has got warm USE THE HIGHER RPMS - stay in 1st, 2nd or 3rd & don't be afraid of holding it at 10,000rpm (while driving - not at the stop lights!) Give it a good workout, get it DAMM HOT. It should run better & with no smoke.. When you get it back check the oil - I'd be tempted to change it again if if looks or smells 'wrong'...
     
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  17. bigoledave

    bigoledave New Member

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    Ok..your'e the man. Sounds like excellent advice. If the rain doesn't spoil the plan, I will do this "Work" (!) this
    weekend. Thanks again for your input.
     
  18. scottbott

    scottbott Member

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    blimey never had mine up to 10,000 rpm yet in any gear, I need a kick up the arse I reckon
     
  19. Thumbs

    Thumbs Member

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    You don’t know what you’re missing ...
     
  20. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    Lol, I used to have a fireblade that did 94mph in 1st gear - used to down change into first if I was doing less than 50 and would rarely change into 2nd until I hit 50 +

    Rpms are fun..
     
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