Jim's $400.00 1986 VF500F

Muriatic acid is the same as hydrochloric acid. When concentrated it is very nasty stuff.

 

Just a word on the muriatic acid, its pretty potent stuff, but works in seconds. Be prepared that after you neutralize it and rinse the tank you'll need to put something in that tank to stop the flash rust forming, which it will very fast (within minutes). Ive used Evaporust or Rustcheck solution to keep the flash rust at bay while working on the clean tank after cleaning. The other alternative is if your lining the tank with Por15 you'd jump into the tank prep stage right after the acid is neutralized. if there are any pin holes they will surely show up after the acid.

On carb kits/parts for your v4 carbs, Id highly recommend Billy's outback, great parts and service (Texas or Arizona I think). I have used his carb kits on several V4 Hondas now and they are a great deal.

 

Thanks for the advice, I am guessing some pin holes will show up after the acid treatment. I bought a quart of the "Red Kote" tank coating and may take your advice and go straight to coating the tank. You are right about the flash rust, I have already tried vinegar to dissolve the rust and the tank looked great for about 30 minutes then completely rusted over. It looks terrible now.

I will give Billy's a try, that one did not show up in any searches I did previously so thanks for the heads up!

 

here you go...

https://billysoutback.com/carb-kits...tion-interceptor-85vf500f-basic-carb-kit.html

 

Jim,

I don't know if you looked at the thread I posted - it has all the steps you will NEED to do. They are in a specific order & ALL need to be done in a prompt manner - once you put the acid in you are on the clock.

I have refined this method over 8 fuel tanks & they are all now perfect.

This is the new condensed & edited version:

For light Rust
Cider Vinegar will do the job - you will still need to use the Bicarbonate of Soda to flush the ‘acid’ & it WILL take a few days for it to work..

I don't like doing it with this as I get a better job faster using Hydrochloric Acid.

For Heavy Rust - Fuel tanks usually require this !
You want to use Hydrochloric Acid - Fuming strength (34 - 36%)

I have found the 2nd method gives the best results & is what I have have to do on all my tanks.

YOU WILL NEED TO DO THIS OUTSIDE – the fumes from the acid are really toxic - & doing this inside REALLY IS CRAZY.

Items Required
Rubber nitrile gloves.
Safety glasses
a mask
a pump to suck out fluid although I have got excellent results from using a large syringe & a tube
hose pipe / water supply
a mount for the tank - because they sit at weird positions a few blocks of wood are fine
Hydrochloric Acid
bicarbonate of soda
Gaffer Tape (Duct tape)
Funnel
Air line - nice to have
& a wrench / socket for the fuel tap mount bolts (usually 10mm / 1/4)
Enough fuel to TOTALLY FILL THE TANK once complete.

First, empty the tank of fuel completely – use the pump / syringe to suck out the dregs of fuel, then remove the fuel tank filler cap & fuel tap - if you don't you WILL DESTROY THEM.

Cover the fuel tap hole - I now use a 10mm thick piece of scrap hard plastic with a piece of rubber from a bicycle inner tube between it & the tank. The plastic provides the strength & the rubber seals the hole. Drill the holes for the tap & use the fuel tap bolts to secure in place.

WEAR THE PROTECTIVE GEAR FROM THIS POINT.

Now its IMPORTANT to add the ACID to the WATER - DO NOT ADD WATER TO THE ACID

Pour 4 litres of warm tap water into the tank then add 1 litre of acid (it really doesn’t need to be exact measurements) - Be really careful not to inhale the fumes & then cover the filler hole with duct tape – stops getting acid splashed when you agitate the tank & also stops the fumes - I used the duct tape – but an emergency plastic filler cap would possibly do a better job.

GENTLY Slosh the tank around every couple of minutes – I check every 5 mins & replace the duct tape each time as it partially melts due to the acid - lol.
I rotate the tank in various positions to help cover all areas using blocks of wood to hold the tank in position.

After just 20 minutes the acid had done its magic (MAY TAKE LONGER OR SHORTER), the rust had gone from the tank – it ends up as sludge in the bottom of the tank, so I emptied the acid into the container & sucked out the rest using the pump.

Now onto neutralising the acid - DO NOT WAIT UNTIL TOMORROW !!! You will be removing plastic fuel tap hole blanking plate a FEW times so have the wrench ready..
Do wear the gloves - you will get 'water' on your hands - I tilt the tank so that I can UNCOVER the blanking plate without water / acid draining out of it - hence the blocks of wood.

1. Fit the blank back onto the fuel tap hole.
2. Fill the tank with water from the hose, slosh it around for a few seconds & then drain through the fuel tap hole - remove the blank.
3. Add ½ cupful of bicarbonate of soda to 4 litres of ‘warm’ tap water (from the hot tap – NOT BOILING WATER FROM THE KETTLE) in a container, give it a good shake / stir to mix it & then empty it into the tank. Seal the filler, give it a really good shake, then gently agitate the tank for a couple of minutes, & then drain through the fuel tap hole - remove the blank..
4. Fill the tank with water from the hose & then drain through the fuel tap hole - remove the blank..
5. Add ½ cupful of bicarbonate of soda to 4 litres of ‘warm’ tap water (from the hot tap – NOT BOILING WATER FROM THE KETTLE) in a container, give it a good shake / stir to mix it & then empty it into the tank. Seal the filler, give it a really good shake, then gently agitate the tank for a couple of minutes, & then drain through the fuel tap hole - remove the blank.
6. Fill the tank with water from the hose & then drain through the fuel tap hole - remove the blank..
7. Now totally drain the tank to remove any water from inside – I used compressed air & the pump syringe to help totally drain it
8. If you want the put a tank system into the tank then now is the time you will want to think of it.
8. Now refit the OEM fuel tap & filler cap.
9. Completely fill it up with fuel

If you want to avoid 'flash rust at the end' put fuel into the tank & be quick about it - The moment it has been emptied I put the OEM tap back on & stick a few litres of fuel in with a quick slosh!

 

Using acid(s) will get rid of rust. The problem is acids are not discriminating and will dissolve good steel too. In many cases this is not much of an issue but in already rusted thinned out petrol tanks, in my opinion, using acid is too aggressive. Especially as there are much better chemical options available to us nowadays. If you are in North America then I strongly recommend Evapo-rust type rust removers. These do not work as quickly as acids if the rust is heavy, but they use a process called chelation which means only the rust is removed. The good steel is left alone. I de-rusted a 86 VF500 tank using a chelation type rust remover(called Restore in the UK) and I just left it in there for two weeks and it did a fabulous job, and I didn't have to worry about it eating into the steel.

 

Thanks everyone for the great advice. I am going do this right so I will need to need some time to gather everything up and have it ready.

I do notice that there is no mentions of coating the tank after all this work. I bought "Red Kote" but I am on the fence as to using it now. If there are no pin hole leaks that show up should I stay away from the coating product? What are the pro's and con's here?

 

Don't line it unless you have to. Just keep it full of fuel when not using it so you don't get condensation inside.

 

I'm also of the opinion, if it doesn't need it - don't add it.

 

Going down the rabbit hole.......This is starting to look look like a frame up restoration. Probably not worth it but I really want to make this bike perfect. Probably going to be a keeper.

 

Today I took out the rear suspension for cleaning and inspection. Glad I did.



First off have to admire the swing arm casting, Honda was always good at castings and this is pretty nice for an inexpensive bike. HOWEVER..


Found this when I flipped the swingarm over. Previous owner ran a loose chain to the point it wore completely through the rubber guard and the chain actually dug about 1/8" into the swing arm casting.


It actually looks worse in real life. The chain got to it pretty good, I am concerned for the integrity of bearing area. Any comments on this? it looks like swing arms are readily available on eBaY.


This is hammered $h!T also, probably not available from Honda I am sure. I guess I could repair it but would rather not.

 

From the photos it doesn't look too bad. I would just replace the guide for now. The thing is with kind of restorations you need to minimise the time, money and energy on small things like this and concentrate on the bigger picture. But that's just my opinion. Getting a useable bike on the road asap would be my objective.

 

Give it a though cleaning & then take another look.

Agree with Jeremy - getting it perfect will take a lot more hours
BUT The thing is you will KNOW !! lol
If it can be replaced easily & 'cheaply' then thats what I would do. The bike is only going to get to a state you want it to.

 

I would run that no problem and not worry about integrity, and the "new" chain slider will hide anything. But if you do go for a replacement, look very closely at the sides of any swingarm. The back of the muffler mount bolt on 500s get pushed into the swingarm very easily from just driveway tip-overs. There's hardly a 500 out there that has been tipped that doesn't have those gouges. I have a pile of swingarms and every single one has it.

 

Haha, I paid the same amount for my 500! Rock on.

 

Yep, this one has them also but they are pretty light. Not worried.

 

Nice! These 500's come up for sale here in Houston a few times a year, I was never masochistic enough to pull the trigger. Too late now LOL

 

When you compare the engineering in that swingarm to some of simple extruded bar modern stuff, one can't help but think cost cutting has gone too far. I expect in terms of fitness for purpose the extruded/welded swingarms work just fine, but they sure look cheap. Honda NC750S/X would be a case in point, same power as a VF500 too.

The VF500 wasn't inexpensive when new, at least not in the UK. It was too expensive, which is one reason it didn't sell too well over here.

 

To be honest I don't remember exacty what we sold the VF500F's for. When I worked for a Honda dealer in the 8o's we sold (5) VF700F's for every (1) VF500F we sold. They were never super popular. We had to give away the last 86 VF500F we had in stock because we started getting in the new '87 CBR600F Hurricanes. The CBR was seemingly so much more bike than the VF500F but now I wonder. I do know the CBR was list priced at $3998.00 USD and we sold out our entire allotment before we even received them from Honda. I am sure dealers were gouging people on price but we did not.

Looking back the CBR600F/1000F looks really cheaply made compared to the VF series. They used the fancy bodywork to cover up the industrial looking engine and fittings in my opinion.

 

Yep same in the UK, a three year model run then oblivion, replaced by the jelly mould CBR600. Which to be fair, even though it was made down to a price was a bike with greater mass appeal. Never rode one but I doubt the riding experience is as good as the VF.