Clutch operation problems

Hi everyone! Relative novice here, so please forgive me if i completely butcher terminology or my explanation of my issue.

I'm having an issue with the clutch lever/clutch on my 1998 vfr800, I can depress the lever fully to go into neutral, but as soon as I release it even the tiniest amount, it feels like the clutch is fully engaging. This is causing me to stall when coming out of a stop since I can't ease off the lever and use the friction zone. The bike seems to shift fine while it's moving. I figured i'd start with the very basics and do a clutch adjust (i've never done one on this bike) but the knob at the lever is super tight, and I can't find the lower adjust, i'm not sure if i'm blind or it doesn't exist? I own a suzuki gw250 as well, I was able to do and adjust on that bike and locate the lower adjust point there, so I did some looking, I saw a post on this forum from 2007 indicating that the clutch was self adjusting, suggesting the clutch plates might be worn but I seem to be having the opposite problem of that poster.

The TL;DR, As soon as I let off my clutch lever, I get full power, there's no friction zone. Is this a clutch adjustment? Where is the lower clutch cable, otherwise, what might the issue be?


Thanks in advance.

 

I don't have a good answer for your problem, but there isn't a clutch cable on a 1998. The clutch is hydraulic, like the front brake.

 

There is no adjustment but my 2000 is sensitive to the clutch being bled completely and carefully. You are correct that a worn clutch is an opposite problem. If the clutch is worn you might be able to let off the clutch lever in 5th or 6th with the bike stopped and the engine would not die.

I suggest:
Pull the slave off and clean everything
Pull the op rod out and clean it, reinstall with a dab of grease
Clean out the reservoir
Fill with new fluid and bleed normally
Bleed at the upper banjo bolt (take care to deal with the spray of brake fluid)
Bleed again by clamping the clutch lever down for a good while (30-120 min) both at the bleeder and again at the banjo. Shake the bike to dislodge any bubbles suck in the system.

Then it should be fine.

If your fluid is super clean you could just bleed it but the slave is backwater that gets really grungy.

 

Hi, the VFR has an hydraulic clutch so, as I understand, you can’t adjust it. The adjustment on the lever just allows you to alter the “reach” of the lever. Your clutch works in a similar way to your brakes, just instead of pushing the brake pads onto disc, it’s disengaging the clutch. 1st check the fluid level through the glass disc, if you can’t see any, either your clutch has worn out and you need a new one (which means taking the side off the engine) or you have a leak (which is probably the slave cylinder and will need new seals and the system bled). If you can see fluid, most likely the seals have gone in the clutch master cylinder which again will need stripping, replacing the seals and bleeding the system. Not massive jobs, but unfortunately not a quick adjustment.


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Well that at least saves me from sounding like an idiot when I call the dealer on Monday. A little extra detail/clarification. When the bike is parked and off, if the bike is in gear I cannot roll it with the clutch depressed, I have to manipulate the gear selector into neutral.

I'm looking at the fluid reservoir indicator, and it looks completely empty, (compared to the break fluid reservoir where I can see a clear line.) I went and found the manual online, Honda suggests to check for leaks, The bike was parked for months before a ride on friday when I noticed the problem, there's no sign of leaks. Is it possible that hydraulic leaks wouldnt hit the ground/I just ran it completely out of hydraulic fluid?

 

https://www.boonstraparts.com/en/pa...800fi-rc46-clutch-slave-cylinder/000000092986 Hopefully the link works and you’ll be able to see what the slave cylinder looks like (haven’t ridden mine for a good few years as small kids have got in the way) think it’s on the Lhs of the bike just on the outside of the fairing on the bottom half of the engine take a look around it for oily fluid


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Well that sure sounds like you need to spend some maintenance time on your clutch system. From the description you probably have air in the line, which means some of your hand lever effort is compressing air rather than moving the clutch pushrod to release the clutch. As as a first step I would be re-filling the master and then bleeding the line to purge the air, then monitor what happens to the fluid level over a few days. The reason for the low fluid level could be that the seal on the slave cylinder has failed and allowed fluid to leak through. Neither of these things is difficult/expensive for a home mechanic to rectify with very basic tools.

 

Popped open the cap on the hydraulic flood reservoir, totally empty. Girlfriend works at a parts store so she's picking up some fluid tomorrow and we'll go from there. Thanks for the help everyone. I'll update as i find more.

 

Won't be much point pouring in new DOT4 fluid if there is air in the line; you need to get rid of the air as well, all you will need is an 8mm wrench and a piece of clear tubing that fits over the bleed nipple.

 

Okay folks, supremely dumb question here what size tubing have you used? The next size i buy will be attempt 5, everything's been too small or slightly too big and i've made a huge mess of my garage and fender. A friend of mine who also has a vfr said he uses aquarium tubing, I had some around from my last fish tank project, that was just a hair too small and I couldn't seat it.

 

I use silicone tubing, 3mm ID, it stretches nicely over a bleeder and won't fall off. Speedbleeders sells it if you can't find it locally.

 

Hint: if you have tubing that's slightly too small use a hair dryer (or heat gun carefully) to warm up the very end of the tubing.
It will expand over the nipple and will often take a set so you can use it the next time without heating.

Be careful to only heat the very end of the tube. If you heat too much of the length it becomes too flexible and floppy to push onto the nipple.

 

My tuppence worth, if the reservoir is empty then there is a good chance that a leak has developed somewhere. Rather than just pouring new fluid in to the reservoir, I would really recommend a proper service. The kit to repair the slave and master cylinders are only about $25 each and replacing them are simple jobs. Perhaps some new crush washers for the banjo bolts would be a good idea too.

Then when you fill up with fluid and go through the hassle of bleeding the air out, you'll have a good chance of ending up with a good hydraulic system that will last you another 20 years.

If you need any guidance, I'd be happy to help and share photos. I did the slave when I changed the friction plates and springs in January and the master today.

 

A good habit is flush/bleed annually. Once you've done the first big one, way less effort next year and it keeps everything cleaner and in optimal shape. Prevention!! Think of all the stories you hear about crudded up systems........

 

I second that. It is cheap maintenance. I would say you could go a couple to 3 years and have the same effect but at the start of every season is a good habit. Way too many people never change it.

Brake fluid is hi.....hyg....hygrow..hygroscop..i..c.............sucks up water. ;p
Over time moisture will weep past the piston seal and brake fluid just loves it.
If you start using the brakes often and hard (read track use hard) it can start boiling the moisture and it starts acting like air in the system but for most people the big deal is it will start to corrode the aluminum around the piston seals, deposit sludge in the master cylinder and makes it a lot of work to clean up when the system needs new seals.

The more often you change the fluid the less expensive fluid you need to run. The less expensive fluid tends to absorb water faster in relative terms but if you are changing it often no big deal.

I know people that run ford superblue in their race cars which is relatively inexpensive but they bleed the brakes after every race. I run Motul RBF 600 which I change once a season but you could buy 4-5 ltrs of superblue for what 1/2 ltr of the Motul costs. Take a look a the dry and wet boiling point specs on the different brake fluids on the shelf some time. All have fairly to really good dry boiling points. The expensive stuff maintains a higher boiling point "wet" which is only critical if you are racing or not changing brake fluid on a periodic basis.

I run the RBF 600 in the VFR but that is because I have it for the race car and once its open it doesn't keep.

 

yes absolutey! If you could link a recommended kit, that would help a ton. Sadly this project is still going as some non bike stuff has kept me out of the garage the past week or two, still havent had a success on the tubing either, though i havent had the chance to heat my most recent order yet. I do suspect there was a leak, my original plan was do the flush and get it to a dealer, if its easily repairable I'm all ears

 

I don't agree with that, sorry.
Change your brake fluid yearly if you want but it will work for much longer than that. You'll know by the feel of the brake lever getting spongy when it needs doing. Renewing it every 2-years would be my recommendation but then it all depends on the mileage you do I suppose.
As for the clutch, as long as the pressure plate is being moved clear to release pressure on the friction plates, the fluid is fine. My point was that if you have a suspected leak or it's clear that the condition of the hydraulic system does contain excessive debris due to neglect, change the seals while you're focused on that job.

 

Typical causes of grabby clutches from my experience...
First, take apart the lever, lube the pivot points with silicone grease (tends not to wash out), and in particular check that brass bushing that is more than likely dry, scored and worn oval, replace it (the one that goes to the plunger). Ensure that adjuster is loose enough to turn, tweak to your preference. Clutch should fully release before you hit the handlebar and have a "friction zone".
The hydraulics of course must be working... flush and bleed. Every two years is OK, but annually much better. Low reservoir could be a sign of a leak, but may be just seepage over years.... If in doubt or see accumulation of a lot of fluid in the housing where the slave mounts, then just replace the seals, cheap and EZ. Determine later if the master needs a rebuild kit, or again, just do it, but your symptoms don't seem to blatantly indicate that (yet, IMHO).
Clutch plates can be dry as they don't get a lot of oil..... having said that, I have little experience with VFR clutches. A good thing is to take the plates out, clean them of any built-up friction plate debris (if any), and liberally coat them in fresh engine oil (some would say soak, but they don't really "absorb" much), then reassemble. But the basic items 1 and 2 are the more important to start with.
Does not sound like weak springs.. there is no adjustment, any friction plate wear is taken up by the springs, stroke of the slave cylinder doesn't really change. But, if you're in there, measure the friction plate thicknesses vs. the spec. wear limits. If you decide to replace, I'd use OEM plates... can't speak for EBC clutches, but Barnett's are way too grabby for me.

 

What's the history of this bike? Did it come to you with the clutch operating in this weird way? The Original Poster describes himself as "a relative novice". Did he just purchase this bike or has he owned it for a while? How many miles on the bike? How many of the miles has the new owner (the Original Poster of this thread) put on the bike?

Did the bike come with any maintenance history? (either written/printed or just a verbal/explained history)

I'm asking these questions because it might be worth knowing more of the bike's history. If I had a "New to me" VFR800 with a clutch that acts strange then, yeah, I would first try the things everyone is suggesting: draining, cleaning, bleeding of the Clutch Master and Slave Cylinders and properly adjusting the Clutch Lever.

But if all of that work (done carefully and properly) doesn't correct the problem then you're going to have to look inside the clutch for the answer, you're going to have to confirm that all of the correct-for-a-1998-year-model clutch parts are present.

Because... What if, before the Original Poster purchased the bike, somebody replaced the clutch on this 1998 5TH Gen? And what if the person doing the work didn't know that the clutch for a 1998-1999 5TH Gen is different from a 2000-2001 5TH Gen? What would be the effect of installing the wrong clutch-pack internals?

 

I've owned the bike since 2016. I've done some services on my own and some repairs including replacing the voltage regulator. I have probably never service the clutch. In 2018 I got new tires and breaks and had the dealer do a full service then. I'd have to find the paperwork but i'm assuming they did a clutch bleed then. The previous owner definitely did some mods including the front fairing and the exhaust, but i purchased the bike from a dealer.