Do not buy K&N Wrench On oil filters: Busted on me

I don't think they will BB. But has there been an issue with OEM that we are aware of like the K&N fiasco? I believe that any manufacturer of a product may put out a piece that is defective. What seems to be the issue here is not an item being deficient, but the design of that item, leading to multiple failures that K&N are experiencing....or rather the consumer who buys the shit are experiencing.

That aside, we now have AM wanting to ride Sniper's equipment while he sits back and drinks beer, and Jim looking at his neighbours equipment because he is blowing things all over the neighbourhood. This thread is really heading in a different direction. Just what kind of society are we living in today?

I need to go run and hide now. Those nurses with that needle are looking for me.

 

Not that in the end it makes any difference with K&N because clearly they don't appear to care, I wonder if the problem is not the fit of the O ring, but the material that the O ring is made out of. Maybe too soft or too hard that may lead to its failure?

 

I installed a PC racing Flo filter on the VFR. It has the same filter elemet as the Scotts, the difference is that the Scotts has a stronger magnet n t and the PC has a drilled nut on it. I talked to both of these companies at length to find out the actual differences as they are almost identical. What i did not find out is how the copy (PC) was done, both parties were mum on the subject but there was a definate pissed off undertone at Scotts. Probaly some patent lawyer didn't dot an i or cross a T and PC made a copy on a loop hole. After a lot of research of partical size, flow tates, valve opening pressure ect I see the distinct advantages of these 2 filters. After I go through the rst of the OEM filters on the CBR I will get one for it, making safety wiring a breeze for track days again.

 

The last time I did a track day it was more ad hoc. The Scott's was on the bike at the time. The safety wire hole is a good idea on any filter.....I have seen way too many times what oil will do to a track if some poor SOB hits it at speed.

Does your PC filter have the spring steel seal? The Scott's has been on my VFR for years. No weeping, no leaking and when I slosh it with dish detergent and then hose it off, it still looks new.

For the nay sayers, who are paying fifteen pesos a pop for OEM, it doesn't take long for one or the other of the metal filters to amortize.

I am content to let the lawyers wrangle on who is nicking from whom...

 

Unless you have an aversion to needles, not to worry. The one's to be most concerned aboot are the guys in white togs with the big nets.

 

Yeah Billy it has the same spring and turn system as Scotts. Seems the hole in the nut is the big difference.

 

Yeah, I caught that, but consider this: If a simple light hand-tight quality torque, using a wrench, is enough to drive it to failure what about shipping, dropping, manufacturing variability and so on? I have always used a wrench to torque on all my filters from cars to tractors to whatever requires it, with a light torque, not a wrench torque. I just like them a bit more snug that a hand-tight, and I've never been a big believer in hand-tightening filters anyway. So it was a light wrench-on torque that caused the failure. Consider holding the filter in your hand and wrenching the nut. It was that level of torque.

And if that's enough to cause failure, I'm out. That implies a drop might be enough to drive it to failure.

I'm an engineer who has been in manufacturing for a few decades, and have been in quality and product servicing the automotive industry. I'm currently in a job bringing up a company to automotive standards. Those standards are some of the most stringent in the world, with good reason, right up there with medical and space (space is the TOUGHEST!), and I'm telling you, there is no way this filter passed a simple drop-test, which is one of the many, many quality control standards that are required. My guess is KM dropped the filter in such a way that the nut was not impacted -- in other words, it dropped the filter on its feet instead of its head. If they had dropped this thing nut-down, it would have failed qual and never been accepted, if it even passed and ever was accepted.

Anyway, it's a fail mode, argue user error all you want and I won't disagree, I am really good a farking shayt up, but it's a failure mode, and it's a non-zero failure mode. It's not a matter of if it will fail, just a matter of when.

 

Sounds like somebody dropped a shitload of those K&N oil filters.

 

You're simply compressing an o-ring. The seal is only going to improve as the temperature increases.

There's a reason the 3 finger adjustable filter wrenches open when you turn them clockwise. They're made for removal only.

 

Horses to water, man, drink up or don't. It's your bike, put what you want on it, but I'm telling you that drilling a bolt into the end of a perfectly good oil filter -- even a left-handed bolt for removal only, even if the user added torque to it -- is a bad idea. This is the only external part of your engine, and it receives a tremendous amount of pressure from shifting and gearing. I was lucky to be gearing down at a stoplight, not shifting at speed, and it's not a fun feeling to have an arterial oil flow slicking up your back tire.

Anyway. Use what all yall want. Seriously, though, be safe, and if this is the safest filter on the market for you, have at. Heck, I just put Conti tires back on after one failed on me (albeit a free replacement...) so I get it. We just don't believe in the lightning until it taps us on the noggin.

 

Backtracking to see who is being spoken to is easier if the original post is quoted via the "reply with quote" function. A hole either drilled or as part of the assembly of an oil filter as stock is for safety wiring the filter to the bike. Sanctioned track events in most places require this. A cheap insurance policy for all concerned for just a minute or two and a couple of centavos worth of Safety wire.

 

Hey folks, I just bought my VFR last year and did not know about these K&N filter shenanigans. Needless to say I had a slight leak, assumed it was just a hair loose, tightened it, and it got way worse. So beware that some of these bad filters are still floating around out there.

 

Thanks for the update in the K&N. Most of the regulars here will not even think of K&N oil filters. Most of us consider them to be severally dangerous. Lots here will use their air filters though. I am not one of them. I use to use their air filters but have returned to OEM elements.

 

I'm not a K&N fan anyway, but you do realize the nut is "Wrench-Off" in their words.... not to be wrenched on. IMHO it's unnecessary idea anyway, lube gasket, spin your filter on until it contacts base, tighten 1/2-3/4 turn more and done, even in the tight quarters of a VFR.

 

mmm no...does the box for any of their motorcycle oil filters actually say "not to be wrenched on"?

Does K&N even provide any written instructions for their motorcycle filters? Wasn't anything but the oil filter in the boxes I bought; not even a freaking "KEEP BACK: K&N Oil Filter" sticker. This looks about right:

I could be wrong but the sum total of what they offer right now for written support online is this: "INSTALLATION TIME 20-30 Minutes"

"3/4 to one full turn to ensure tightness" is what they say in their 2016 video "How to properly install a KN-204 oil filter on a Yamaha R1". It's impossible to get enough hand grip on the filter to get 3/4 to one full turn on many motorcycles. That video doesn't say not to use the nut to tighten the oil filter...it just says "Do not over tighten." One sure way to prevent over tightening...is to use a torque wrench right? If only the oil filter was compatible with my torque wrench...

Later the video says "you'll want to refer to your OEM owners manual for ... potential torque specifications for your oil filter." What do you do with torque specifications? How to you torque something? K&N is telling us their product must be torqued and the nut is the implied and only way of doing that with their design.

Maybe the shell of some of their filters was made of more durable metal when they got into the game...but that nut has no business being welded to anything as brittle as the skin they ship now.

Product needs to be removed from market.

 

Got into a wee debate on another forum about them. Seems folks are reluctant to admit they used the nut to tighten it on, and yes there are no instruction warnings to my knowledge. The only reference is "Wrench-Off".
IMHO, 3/4 to 1 turn is too much, nigh on impossible by hand to get past 3/4 turn... if you lube the gasket with oil, and if you can get close to 3/4 turn, call it good, I've never had a filter leak or loosen as long as I've had 1/2 turn or more. If beyond 3/4 turn, it will be fun getting it off come next oil change time.
The Honda torque spec (and Suzuki) only applies to the OEM where the gasket is an O-ring, again IMHO, and the tool used is a filter wrench that encompasses the entire end of the filter. IF you do crank it on to those specs, expect a beatch of a time getting it off.........
Agree, if K&N and the other brand with a nut don't want to supply a warning, then they should be taken off the market...

 

Fine - it is good to see that after more than 3 years of posts in this thread - people are still reaching the same conclusion.

Sadly whilst K&N may have a decent reputation for making "upgrdaded performance" air filters I will never consider using their oil filters. I certainly would be happy to go with a WallyMart unit if OEM was not available, but K&N no thanks - way too many reports of leaks and some potentially dangerous.

PS James - Welcome to the forum - please swing by the "introductions" part of the forum to say Hi to the rest of the folks on here and please tell us a bit about you and your VFR(s)..

Meantime take care ATGATT - especially if you still have a K&N oil filter!



SkiMad

 

What about the big letters that say wrench off on the side of the box. Surely that is a big enough clue?

https://www.knfilters.co.uk/faq


- CAN THE NUT ON WRENCH-OFF® OIL FILTERS BE USED FOR INSTALLATION?


No, the nut on Wrench-Off® oil filters cannot be used for installation, as doing so may cause serious damage to the filter. If you attempt to use the nut to tighten the filter on installation, you may end up over-tightening the filter or causing damage to the spot welds on the filter—which could result in cracking and leakage while the filter is in service. The nut is intended to be used for convenient removal only.

 

Do you mean the big RED letters on 2 sides or the smaller one in black? lol

 

K&N has a web site that posts their most asked questions. I didn't see, "Why the fuck do you keep pounding out those shit motorcycle oil filters that are leaking shit all over our rear tires?"