Bought Wrecked '86 VFR, Where Do I Go From Here??

Discussion in 'General VFR Discussions' started by mcpmartin, Nov 9, 2021.

  1. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    paint stripper usually contains MEK, a deadly, cancer-causing chemical, so it would be smart to read the MSDS covering it's use and handling.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
  2. mcpmartin

    mcpmartin New Member

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  3. mcpmartin

    mcpmartin New Member

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    I bought this bike from an auction (not running). I have 2 major problems I'm trying to work through. The previous owner ran the fuel line from the tank directly to the carbs (no fuel pump). Obviously there are a few things missing. Here are the questions I have.

    1.) I have 2 fuel lines (1 in and 1 out) of the carb area. The 1 coming out looks like an overflow or something, but it sometimes leaks fuel when I switch the fuel to "on". What is this and am I missing a fuel return to the tank or something. Pic below.

    2.) My fuel pump, relay, and wire harness connector are all 3 missing. Like I mentioned, the fuel pump is missing along with its wiring & relay. I'm familiar with repairing wiring, but I have no point of reference here. It's hard to replace parts when you don't know what they look like or where they mount, etc. Can someone help me understand how the relay is wired into the fuel pump? I'm assuming it's keyed off the switch and might tie into the rectifier so the pump only runs while the engine is running. Pic below.

    Leaking Fuel Line (Fuel Return Line???)

    Missing Fuel Pump, Relay, and Wire Plug (What is this supposed to look like???)
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2021
  4. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    #1: Is exactly how it should be except it goes thru that little ring mounted on the of the right rear carb. It is the vent to atmosphere hose for the carbs.

    #2: Pretty sure the extra wire is the one that had a bullet connector that used to go to the Fuel Cut Relay. It's suppose to look like there's a fuel pump (mounted on a bracket), fuel filter and relay there.

    Open your Factory Service Manual (You have one, right? Not Haynes, not Clymer) and look at the illustrations showing the components and routing.
     
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  5. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    fuel dripping from the small vent line means that one or more float needles are leaking and need cleaning or replacement. it would be a miracle if the bike you bought does not need a thorough carb cleaning.

    running without fuel pump is ok, but you might not be able to access the lower portion of the fuel tank, so keeping fuel level in the tank high is important.
     
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  6. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    [QUOTE="squirrelman, post: 630786, member: 3024" it would be a miracle if the bike you bought does not need a thorough carb cleaning.[/QUOTE]

    This right here. Trying to evaluate problems without starting at what would be the number #1 thing that will be in need of attention on a wrecked, non-running, auction bike is futile. Think of properly set-up carbs as part of the foundation to build upon. That is of course assuming you have decent compression that the sorted carbs can deliver to and be squished and ignited, the other part of the foundation.
     
  7. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    The picture shows the physical layout, I assume you've got a service manual/wiring diagram, but if not the relay trigger comes from the yellow/green (from the CDI), black feeds the power in (from the fuse C) and blue/black feeds power to the pump. If you put a jumper into the male clear 2P plug from the relay it makes the pump live all the time the ignition is on. The pump cycles until it achieves back pressure then stalls out.
    IMG_2649.JPG
     
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  8. mcpmartin

    mcpmartin New Member

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    This right here. Trying to evaluate problems without starting at what would be the number #1 thing that will be in need of attention on a wrecked, non-running, auction bike is futile. Think of properly set-up carbs as part of the foundation to build upon. That is of course assuming you have decent compression that the sorted carbs can deliver to and be squished and ignited, the other part of the foundation.[/QUOTE]


    No, guess I wasn't clear before. The bike will start, idle, and rev for as long as you want to manually supply gas to the fuel inlet to the carbs. That's not my problem. I'm pretty sure I clearly stated above that I have missing supply parts (pump, relay, and wiring for relay). The wiring harness was cut up at some point (guessing previous owner/who knows). Regardless, I'm trying to get it back to an original state, but it's very difficult to replace wiring and parts when you don't know exactly whats missing. There is no connector for the relay. There is no relay. There is no pump.
     
  9. mcpmartin

    mcpmartin New Member

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    I appreciate the pictures and suggestions. I'm guessing a fuel pump from the late 80's or early 90's would work, right? It doesn't have to be one specifically designed for the 86/87 VFR, right? I'll probably look to eBay and find a used one for that era to fit my application. Also, I'll probably have to look at wiring diagrams to figure out how to add back a plug for the relay (as it's no where to be found). I appreciate the help!
     
  10. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    It can run and seem ok, but you have issues that need to be addressed before you move on. Filling the oil with gas is not good.
     
  11. mcpmartin

    mcpmartin New Member

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    I'll send off my carbs for rebuild soon. However, I want to get this missing fuel pump & relay issue figured out first. Last week I ordered an OEM Honda (Mitsubishi) fuel pump, and it arrived over the weekend. I tested it last night, and it is functional. So, now I need to figure out how to wire it into the bike. If you'll remember from my previous posts, I'm missing part of the wire harness & plugs.

    I've read a lot about people bypassing the relay & putting a switch on the bike. Is anyone on this forum doing this? Reason I'm considering bypassing the fuel cutoff relay is because apparently no one is making quality relays that are worth a damn anymore, and I'm not interested getting stranded by a relay failure. Any thoughts on this topic?
     
  12. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    Hey, I'm winterizing one of my VFRs tonite and removing the rear cowls to snap some pics for something else actually. I'll snap some pics of the pump area too. I run the relays on all my bikes, but I also run switches in parallel on all my bikes for the reason you stated: Not to get stranded. It has saved my ass twice. The other benefit of a switch is you can prime the system after draining the carbs, like for instance, winterizing, without having to crank and crank waiting for the carbs to fill.

    The Fuel Cut Relay is a safety device so the pump doesn't continue to pump in the event of an accident (or system failure) where the ignition is on but the motor is not running, possibly pumping fuel into a bad scenario. I'm not overly concerned about this, but I run the relays because I have so damn many spares.

    Good job getting the Mitsu pump btw.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
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  13. mcpmartin

    mcpmartin New Member

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    Yes, I'd really appreciate that! Pictures can be very helpful, and I'd like to see how you set yours up.

    On a side note, these 3 pin relays don't make sense to me. How do they function without a ground wire? Everything I'm seeing and reading references only 3 wires (a signal/coil (ac), key switch (volt in), and fuel pump (volt out)). I'm very familiar with automotive relays, but never have I worked with a relay missing a ground. Can someone give me the dummies-guide to understaning 3 pin motorcycle relays?
     
  14. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    It senses signal from ignition and allows the power to continue thru the harness to the 2 wire pump connector, and that has a ground.

    As far as how the actual circuitry works inside (without a ground)? No clue, just another black box to potentially fuck me out on the road.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
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  15. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    20211129_165431.jpg

    The wire bundle under the rubber boot to the right in this pic comes from the battery side near the solenoid. BLK/BLU - BLK - YEL/GRN go to the Fuel Cut Relay. Connect BLK/BLU+BLK to bypass the relay. BLK/BLU - GRN go to the Fuel Pump power plug. You can see where I split off before the relay and one run is going to the toggle. Normally I will put the toggle down on the left inside the lower cowl, but on this bike this location allowed me to be a little lazy. It's hidden by the side cover but can be easily accessed without removing it. I think I can even reach down and under while riding.

    The pump you got likely has straight outlets, so you need to get a little creative to turn up before the coolant res without pinching lines. I've done 90 or 45 degree fittings and/or pre-formed fuel line on other bikes, depending on clearances. Or mount the pump in a alternative location / orientation.
     
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  16. mcpmartin

    mcpmartin New Member

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    That's a great idea, and thank you again for sharing the pics. I'll follow your lead and do the same on this bike.

    My new pump has the factory original design (curved outlets), so I'll be able to mount in its original location. Attaching pic of the new fuel pump...
     
  17. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    Wow. How much was that pump?

    Edit: Yikes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
  18. mcpmartin

    mcpmartin New Member

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    It was a bit more than I wanted to spend. I first tried the eBay approach and ordered a couple used pumps (both were duds & did not work at all). I know, I know, that's always a risk when paying for used parts on eBay. So, I finally talked myself into ordering one of these new OEM pumps on eBay. The reviews looked great, so I gave into temptation & ordered one. It was $242 shipped to my front door all the way from Hachioji, Japan. It looks legit, so I'm assuming it's not a knock off. I tested it over the weekend, and it works great.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2021
  19. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    It looks legit and I'm sure it is.

    I order used ones off ebay. They are Mitsu pumps, but I look for ones with straight outlets off applicable newer bikes with low miles. 5 now, and they have been great. Plus I usually get a bunch of preformed fuel lines and clamps in the deal for about 25 - 30 bucks.
     
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  20. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    without even being hooked up to power a pump can be tested with a multimeter by measuring ohms across the lead wires. some ohms is good, so it's likely to work, but zero conductivity means it's no good.
     
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