2002 VFR800 No Start

So, I bought a 2002 VFR800 the other day, as I've been looking for one since last year, but haven't been able to justify some of the prices out there. Saw one for a reasonable price, the guy said it died at a gas station, and he hasn't been able to get it to start. My buddy has a bike shop, and went with me to see it. It would turn over with a small jump pack, but would not start. At the time I bought it, it was downpouring, and he said he's pretty confident we'll get it running.

He hasn't been around yet, and I've been working on figuring out the issue. So far, I've tried:
- new battery
- pulled a coil pack and plug, NO SPARK. Tested from the postive terminal to a coil pack, had 12v. (originally, I was getting .15, but was testing from negative to negative, which wasn't working out well for me)
- removed the air filter, and have tried starter fluid. I've had occasional chuff, but that's it. At one point, it sounded like it was going to run, on starter fluid, but that was in the beginning, and have not had a repeat since.
- removed the rectifier and diode tested it, which read correctly, but that really doesn't help if it is not running. The previous owner had it disconnected from the stator; I plugged it back in. Don't think there has been any difference.
- unbolted the stator cover and verified that the stator is not cooked (appears to have been replaced recently)
- emptied the tank, put fresh gas in it
- checked and made sure the CPG was plugged in, although I have not tested it for resistance or voltage yet.
- checked fuses (that I could find). Also looked at the bus bar, and, while the cover was disconnected, it did not look terrible from appearance. The one fuse cable pictured was pretty rough looking, and open, but still was testing 12v.

When I turn the key on, it whines from the dash area. I searched in here, and checked, and the green cable on the blue connector on the left front looks good, and does not appear to be bad. I do not have a FI light on, until I try to start it. The fuel pump does not prime when turning into the "on" position, but when I press the start button, it turns on then.

Here is a video of turning it on, turning over, and shutting off. You can hear the pump and the whine:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19Wyq9sDQK1zK5NLs_jMHOuN6PoqGHh--/view?usp=sharing

Tomorrow, I am going to probably remove the nose and get to the tip sensor, as that and the kickstand sensor (I have it on the center stand, and have tried starting with the kickstand down and up), are the only two things left I can think of.

Any ideas?

 

That main fuse wire in your picture looks pretty suspicious.

The fuel pump should prime for 3 seconds as soon as the ignition is switched on if the kill switch is in "run". The Fi light should also be on, and only come off when the engine is running.

The starter circuit is looking for an earth to complete the solenoid activation; can be through the neutral wire (right side of clutch cover) or through both the sidestand switch (up) and clutch switch (pulled in).

Service manual is available here: https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index...tec-with-bookmarks-new-cover-ocr/&do=download

Eraly 6th gens apparently have a common earth block failure frequently; this is an orange or blue rectangle 1 x 1 x 1/2" on the wiring loom under the front cowl. These get corroded and can melt.

 

Terry,

So I worked on it some more today. I am attaching the photos.

- pulled the common earth block, scrubbed the bus bar, if you will, and put it back together. From some posts on VFRD, this one has not had the recall applied--I have two green ground cables at the blue connector, and there is no punch 10mm over and down from the "J" in the VIN number.
- removed the front fairing and headlights (what a hassle), exposing the relays and tip over sensor. Note: the first thing I removed was the mirrors, and someone had used vampire clamps to install mirrors with integral turn signals. For fun, I tried turning it on, to see if the turn signals worked. Much to my surprise, when switching to the "on" position, it stopped whining, the lights worked, and I heard the 3 second fuel pump prime. However, further work on removal, and it returned to the same problem, no prime, relay whining.
- bypassed the tip over sensor. Still no luck. I also removed it, and shook it, and I can hear the ball rattling around in the fluid, so I put it back.
- removed the right headlight relay. This eliminated the whine, although the hi-beams were not working either now. When both plugged in, I got the whine from both relays, and no working headlights. I think there's an issue in the headlights, but I am not sure how this is effecting my lack of spark.
-removed all relays and diode, and visually checked all fuses, and tested the diode. I had .520 and .504 from either side when testing on the multimeter, under the diode testing setting. When reversing, I got OL on both, so the diode tests good.
- I removed the headlight fuse, and, when turning on, no whine, and the fuel pump primes.
- pulled #1 plug and coil, put plug back in coil, and turned it over to test for visible sparks. No spark to coil, and when contacting the engine, no spark jumping to engine, either. So this remains my main issue--no spark.

I did not test the fuel cutoff relay, but with lack of whine, I am not as concerned, as when I pull plug 1 (the only plug I've pulled so far), it's wet with gas.
Several times among this point, when getting the fuel prime, I would give the velocity stacks a quick squirt of starter fluid, and after several cranks, I will get the occasional "chuff" from one or several cylinders. I don't understand how this is happening, if I have no spark.

I have also noticed some issues with the kill switch. Sometimes it takes one or two tries to get it to turn on after turning off the kill switch. This tells me there is an issue with it, and it either needs to be torn apart, or replaced. I put it back into the on position, verified that it'll start, and left it there.

So, to summarize, I don't have any visible burn marks, do not appear to have the recall applied, several relays appear to either be bad, or wiring is an issue somewhere that I cannot see. When removing plug on cylinder #1, I see and smell gas on the plug, and there is no visible spark when turning over.

Thanks.

Here you can see the fuel pump turning on, no codes, and it chuffs when I apply starter fluid, but not for long:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AgI6E24SJkOQgVdyAXZFXemfD85uvVvG/view?usp=sharing

Here is the earth ground connection, after brushing it. It already was pretty clean, but I did so for extra measure:



Before:



Front fairings removed:



Aforementioned aftermarket mirrors:

 

I'm close to out of my depth here. Just so you know (and I'm grasping at straws a bit) there is a cut-out in the starter button that disengages the headlights when the starter is turning. These switches can get dirty and cause odd issues, and your comment about the kill switch suggests the area may need a good clean out. I chased "bad fuelling" on my 1990 ST1100 for some weeks (and many carb cleans) before I discovered a dirty connector which was limiting the voltage reaching the ignition and giving weak sparks.

 

After replacing most relays and sensors, I came to the conclusion that something is seriously wrong. I let it sit for a while, with the trickle charger in place, and when I came out, I turned it on. Pump primed. I was pretty excited. I turned it off, and then back on (insert tech support voice), and it worked the second time. Third time, no pump, and the fuel shutoff relay started clicking, maybe 5 times. Turn it off and back on, 3 times. Off and on, 2 times. Off and on, nothing. Checked the battery (which is a new one), still full charge. At this point, to consider I could not get a repeatable result, I decided I was going to get the recall done before I tried anything else.



Went to the local small dealer (not really much of a dealer anymore, but they can still do recalls and such. The closest real dealer is 45-50 minutes away). It was gone for two weeks, and I got the call, and picked it up. They said they were not able to get it to start, but the battery was also almost dead. I talked to the guy for a few minutes, and they basically said disconnect and reconnect everything, sometimes it works.

Once I brought it home, I looked it over, and plugged in the trickle charger. They did a pretty nice job, and they even did a few things that weren't in the recall, like fixing the nasty solder/burn job on the secondary main fuse, or whatever that 30 amp next to the main fuse is.


The first thing I noticed immediately, was that I was getting a prime every time. So that's a plus. Secondly, I was now getting codes. I have been getting 23 and 24, the O2 sensor heater wire errors. I tried to clear the codes, but either A) they won't go away and come right back on, or B) I am failing to reset it. I've had it flashing repeatedly a few times, which should mean that it was cleared. Thirdly, on one of the on/off, clear code, repeat cycles, I got a code 19, which is the ignition pulse generator. It went away with the reset, and did not come back on, but I pulled out the multimeter, and it showed 428 ohms, which is in spec. I had bought a set of sensors and relays from a parts bike on Ebay, and I plugged in the replacement, and ran it back and forth over a rachet wrench, and it was responding about the same as the one in the bike was when turning over, so I think the one in the bike might be ok. It's not testing 0v when turning over, in other words.

I pulled a coil and plug, and I am still only getting 2.7v. This is the main issue, I'm pretty sure. The plugs are damp with gas, so I am not too concerned about the injectors, although I do need to test voltage on those.

Today I went out with the wife, to go over the nifty ECU diagram posted on here. I started on the top right, and made it down to the IDC, and ran into two issues there. Yellow/Black on my bike, is the IDC sensor cable, not the PAIR solenoid. There is no Orange/Black that I can find on any connectors in that area. Just to make sure I'm looking at the right parts, the PAIR solenoid is the the solenoid in the back of the air box. On mine, those wires are solid orange, and green/red, if I remember correctly. The IDC (I believe the manual calls it the Bypass Control Solenoid Valve) is Yellow/Black and Black/White. My problem, testing from connector to ECU connector, Black/White is .1 Ohms, whereas Yellow/Black is 31.5. Something tells me, this is not good. There is no visible issues on the cable anywhere I can see.


A) is the diagram incorrect?
B) 35.1 Ohm from connector to connector is a Bad Thing(TM), right? Still, I don't think the BCS/IDC connector should be keeping it from running, right?

I'm heading out to do more connection testing. Will update.

 

Well, I think I might have found the issue... no conductivity from the black and white on the coil connectors to the ECU. Shouldn't I be getting conductivity, or not?

 

I've tested from each point on the ECU connectors to a random coil, nothing. Tested from the black/white on the fuel shutoff relay (with it plugged), tested good to the injector, but not the coil packs. I tested coil packs from front to back, good. Side to side, good, but none of them will connect to the ECU or battery connectors (not sure if that should connect). Green/ground connects ok, although I have seen fluctuation. From the colored wire, to the ECU, good.



I'm out of ideas.

 

I believe I found the issue. Of all the places, fixya.com.

https://www.fixya.com/motorcycles/t19075221-honda_vfr_800_a2_only_firing_1

Mine isn't firing on any. However, I called my dad, discussing about how I had checked continuity, and the four together have continuity to each other, but none to anything else. He suggested hotwiring one of the black/white cables to something else. So I did that. I pulled coil pack #1 out, with the plug, and disconnected the pack. I shoved the jumper wire into the female black/white connector, and then inserted the other end to the back of the fuel shutoff relay connector. I then sprayed starter fluid, and it tried to start. I then pulled the connector off of #3, and plugged in the coilpack I had pulled from 1, and put the plug in into it, and held it next to the frame. Spark! Remove the jumper wire, no spark again. So I am pretty sure the fixya guy is correct about this, so now I think I am going to have to tear the whole rear end off to remove the battery box, so I can correctly access where the wires splice together. Joy. My buddy suggested just replacing the wires and splicing them to another black/white connection, but I really hate doing things half-assedly. I guess I'll see how bad it will be to get to that connection point. I can see where they are taped together, just out of reach behind the front of the battery box.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NQ3yY3sa07ooDUVypzg5HhWXobDkSFsG/view?usp=sharing

 

good job trouble-shooting and trying to fix the problem yourself with some help

listen to your buddy, and do the simple, quick fix to get back riding.

 

Really good write up. Learning a lot from this post. I’m having issues starting my recently purchased 05 VFR800 and posted my own thread as well.

Following…

 

Found it. So, I started tearing the bike apart. To get to the wiring, correctly, at least, you have to remove the rear plastics. So I tore it down to the frame, trying my best to remember where everything goes. I took a lot of pictures. I also removed the exhaust, as I plan on not using it, but just putting a stainless tip on the "breadbasket" with an angled cut, and leave it. If it is too loud, I'll see what options are out there, but the stock exhaust is heavy, and I don't plan on putting it back on. Will probably have it for sale on the marketplace in the next few days, if everything works out.

I had a helper for a little while. The wife's bike's saddlebag kept the puppy from getting into things he shouldn't be in.



So I finally got the battery tray/rear "bodywork" off. I then carefully snaked the right side coilpack an fuel tank connectors over to the left side, and started untaping the harness, starting right beneath the three-way splice.



I had felt moisture once while moving the harness around, and didn't really think much of it, sniffed to make sure it wasn't fuel, and then went on. But when I started opening up the tape, it literally started pouring water out of the harness. It's hard to see, but I'm angling it down, and water is pouring out of the harness. At least 1/4-1/2 cup of water came out of it.



I then started untaping the harness in earnest. Everything was damp and wet, but being coated wiring, most of it seems to be fine.

\

Everything looks like it was dragged around in the mud before being taped up. My hope of finding the 4-way splice right at the end was soon dashed, and I realized with the moisture, as well as having to find this splice, I'd most likely need to get to more of the harness. So I disconnected the O2 connectors and kickstand sensor connector/s, and that, as well as pulling the rear sections of the harness up toward the frame, allowed me to pull the main harness up 6 or so inches, so I could reach it and untape it. I unwrapped up to the earth ground, hoping that would be as far as I needed to go.



I found it! I found a 3-into-1 black/white splice, wrapped in blue tape. I unwrapped the splice, and it fell apart in my hand. The water corroded the wiring underneath the splice, and seperated it, and the tape was holding it just enough to allow spark to jump sometimes, but not enough to get 12v.



Well, that's unfortunate. I continued unwrapping, and I could see a few other taped splices.



I was wondering how bad the earth ground would be. It took a lot of effort to take the damn thing apart, but it eventually came apart. My fears were not unfounded. I found corrosion and dampness in there. I was unable to take this one apart, as I was able to do the other one. I will think about weither or not I want to just solder all these into one, or something along that line. Otherwise, I will take a brush and scotch brite, and do what I can to clean up the corrosion on the first few pins.

 

I left it out to dry overnight, and I'll get back to it in the morning. I kept unwrapping, and lo and behold, I found another black/white splice. I carefully unwrapped the tape, and this one fell apart, as well. You can see both breaks in this picture.



I went further past the earth ground. The dampness was not as bad as further down, but there was still moisture. I very carefully unwrappe a light blue splice. It showed corrosion, but was not severed. That gives me some hope.



My dad, who is far better at soldering than I am, is hopefully coming over tomorrow morning, and everywhere there is a splice in here, the wire will be cut, stripped, and soldered and heat shrunk, before I rewrap the entire harness. I am really hoping this harness is salvageable. I think it is, but I will probably go over it with the heat gun or hair dryer, if being out in the open overnight does not dry everything off. I will go through the entire harness up until I cannot access it anymore, then rewrap the entire thing. I suspect I will be able to get it to run tomorrow evening.

I do have some vacuum hoses that I have no idea where they belong. One on the left side has a white connecting male-to-male fastener on it, but no hose after that. No idea what it is. I'll worry about that after I get the wiring fixed and most of the bike back together. I will try to make sure to keep updating, as I suspect someone else is going to come to this issue eventually.