2014 VFR800 oil recommendation???

Discussion in '8th Generation 2014-Present' started by Honda88, Mar 29, 2019.

  1. Honda88

    Honda88 New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2019
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I know there are threads about this but I really would like some sort of an expert opinion on this matter. The vfr uses a water cooled engine and honda recommends 10w30 oil. Is the 2014 V4 specifically designed for this oil or is this really just an attempt to get better mpg? Also is there really any advantage to running 10w40 in the summer? If the engine temp stays within operating range how would 10w40 help anything??? Is the heavier weight oil better for the transmission??? My dealer told me 10w40 is fine but they aren't honda so im not sure who to trust....

    Thanks
     
  2. mello dude

    mello dude Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,401
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Southwest Ohio
    Map
    I am on 6 or 7 motorcycle forums and I dont think there is a more controversial topic - the conversation is the same on every one. (Everyone is an expert)
    I am not saying what I use, but I think the most used in no order are (All are synthetics)
    - Amsoil 10w-40 Motorcycle oil
    - Mobil 1 4T - 10w-40 Motorcycle oil
    - Mobil 1 -- 10w-40 -- check to make sure it does not say energy conserving.
    - Shell Rotella T6 - 5W-40 - is very popular, athough there seems to be some recent controversy over the specification/certification.
    Above probly covers 60/70% of what the majority uses...
    Add the others to the list...
    I'm done :Behindsofa:
     
  3. bk94si

    bk94si New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2018
    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I would stick with the recommended weight. Tolerances are so close in modern engines that a thicker oil might not have enough oil flow. Back in the old days, it might have been okay to put in thicker oil but I don't believe this is true any longer.
     
  4. Honda88

    Honda88 New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2019
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Just got back from a very cold ride. The bike has 10w40 in it. It performs well and the dealer said it was fine...I dont know how going a bit heavier than recommended could cause engine failure. Anybody out there with high mileage 50k plus on a 8th gen using 10w40?. I'm going to go the 600 miles with the oil that's already in it. I see no reason to change just for a few more hundred miles.
     
  5. mello dude

    mello dude Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,401
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Location:
    Southwest Ohio
    Map
    That's the same base engine Honda has been using since 2002 - you could add in 5th gens which started in 1998. There are plenty of VFRs with mileage over 50k and would guess 85% + is using a Synthetic 10w-40.... There is no reason to freak if that is in your bike now, you may even want to continue with it or even follow the list on my first post.

    You could check in your owners manual, and typically there are more than one recommended grades to run.

    Ok now I am really done.. :Behindsofa:
     
  6. Honda88

    Honda88 New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2019
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I have the manual and the service manual. There is no mention of using anything other than 10w30 but if this is the same engine then I doubt there would be any issues with running the 10w40. I've heard honda changed it to 10w30 because of emissions regulations. It would be nice to hear from a certified honda mechanic if this is the case or not.
     
  7. OOTV

    OOTV Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    6,170
    Likes Received:
    781
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Location:
    Anaheim, Ca.
    Being in So Cal the mean temperature is typically a little higher than other regions of the country and since these bikes run "warmer" anyway, I opted for 10w40. The owners manual indicates the oil type can be chosen based on average temperatures.

    Screen Shot 2019-03-29 at 1.10.47 PM.png
     
    Thumbs and mello dude like this.
  8. Honda88

    Honda88 New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2019
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1

    You must have gotten Info that I dont have. My 2014 manual doesnt have that chart in it but at this point life is too short and I'm just going to put 10w40 in it. It does get to be 90 plus degrees here in the summertime.
     
  9. OOTV

    OOTV Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    6,170
    Likes Received:
    781
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Location:
    Anaheim, Ca.
    In all honesty, this is from my 09 manual but none the less still applies, it's essentially the same motor...Cheers
     
  10. Honda88

    Honda88 New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2019
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I figured as much. Seems like most people who own vfrs dont have the 8th gen.
     
  11. fink

    fink Insider

    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,172
    Likes Received:
    298
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Ardnamurchan Penninsula, Scotland
    Map
    Owners manual says 10w30.

    If you don’t have one you can download one from Australia Honda.
     
  12. Honda88

    Honda88 New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2019
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I understand the manual says 10w30 I have the official service manual
     
  13. fink

    fink Insider

    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,172
    Likes Received:
    298
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Ardnamurchan Penninsula, Scotland
    Map
    Great. When I find the oil lecture by someone who works in the industry I’ll post it up for your perusal.
     
  14. Honda88

    Honda88 New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2019
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I have no clue what to do at this point. It sounds like the 10w40 would be better in the summertime because it would protect...I dont know what to do I'm so frustrated.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
  15. fink

    fink Insider

    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,172
    Likes Received:
    298
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Ardnamurchan Penninsula, Scotland
    Map

    Found it so here you go.


    I found this posted on another forum, written by a brainiac type from Silkolene. It kinda answers all my questions about oil and no doubt everyone else's as well. Enjoy...

    BIKE OIL QUESTIONS & ANSWERS
    The other big problem with oil used to be cold starting. It was usual to have SAE 20 Winter or 'W' grades, and SAE 30 or 40 Summer grades, and even the so-called Winter types would defeat the starter in serious cold weather. Unfortunately, oil is very thick when it's cold, and very thin when it's hot. To have an oil thick enough to look after a hard working engine, you had to use a grade which was too thick when it was cold.

    The answer was (and is) multigrade! What was needed was an oil that behaved like a 20 'W' grade in the cold, but only thinned down to a SAE 40 or 50 when really hot; yes, 20W/50!



    What are the differences, in layman's terms, between mineral, semi-synthetic and fully-synthetic engine oil ?

    (In terms of structure and performance.) Before we get into details, the first thing to realise that there is no chalk and cheese difference between mineral and synthetic based oils. After all, the chemical compounds which make mineral engine oils so much better are themselves synthetic.

    Synthetic lubricant bases are stepwise improvements on mineral oil, with more desirable properties and fewer undesirable ones. The second important point is that there's no one thing called 'synthetic'! There are several different types of synthetic lubricant, and to say something like: 'the Supergrunt XXR must have a full synthetic' is meaningless unless the 'expert' explains what sort of synthetic he means. Equally, to imply that dreadful things will happen if the 1970 Hardley-Ableson Bluegrass is run on anything other than Pennsylvania mineral is ridiculous. It may not need a 2007 synthetic, but it isn't going to come to any harm if the owner uses a 2007 synthetic.

    The most basic type of synthetic is really a special mineral oil. Known as 'hydrocracked' bases, these are made in oil refineries by putting certain types of mineral fraction through special processing, so they cost more than the usual mineral types but not much more. They are useful because they resist evaporation at high temperatures. Although used for years for genuine technical reasons, they are now popular with marketing men because the magic sexy word 'synthetic' can legitimately be printed on the label without spending much on the oil inside the can!

    How does oil work? What gives it its lubricating properties? How does it 'cling on' to surfaces?

    A plain bearing such as a main or big end, when spinning fast is 'floating' on a relatively thick film of oil. The metal surfaces literally do not touch. The high velocity drives a wedge of oil between the two surfaces, and the oil film supports the load, just like a water skier skimming over that very thin lubricant, water. But, when the engine slows down and stops the bearing shells drop through the film and touch the crankpins, just as the skier sinks in up to his neck when he lets go of the rope.

    It is where there is metal to metal contact that lubrication, that is, something to reduce wear and seizure, is needed. On gear teeth, valve components, and piston rings at top or bottom dead centre, there is no high speed rotation to generate 'wedge' support, so the oil films are very thin, and some metal contact is inevitable. Some fluids, even if they look thick and oily, are completely hopeless!

    Very pure mineral oils, and some synthetics fall into this group. They depend entirely on chemical load-carrying compounds which react with metal at high pressures and temperatures to provide very thin protective films which prevent micro-welds where metal surfaces come into contact.

    Detergent and antioxidant chemicals often double up as anti-wear agents. The odd ones out are esters. These are attracted to metal by electrostatic forces and cling on when surfaces are forced into contact.

    What are (or can be) the main differences between oils of the same type, i.e. what's the difference between a 'good' and a 'bad' oil.

    A good oil is what it claims to be on the can. 10W/40? Does it really pass the cold test at -25C? Quite a few I've tested do not. There is usually an API spec quoted, such as API SH or SL. These are car-based, but a good basic quality guide. If absent, leave it on the shelf, and avoid lawyer-speak: 'meets the requirements of....' or 'recommended (by whom?) for use in....'. The JASO MA or MA2 spec is a good sign, because this Honda/Kawa/Yamaha/Suzuki-sponsored series of tests is entirely motorcycle-orientated, and includes a clutch slip test, a shear-stability test, and a high-temperature/high shear viscosity minimum permitted level.

    The 'big four' were pushed into introducing this series of tests back in the late 90s by the poor quality of USA-produced oils.

    Then there is the 'synthetic' minefield! Provided the price hasn't been pushed up by shipping an average oil 5000miles from the West coast of the USA, you get what you pay for.

    The best motorcycle oils are made in the more developed European countries.


    Also, there is endless semantic manoeuvring and lawyer-speak around The Magic Word?.?synthetic?. For instance, a ?synthetic? oil is invariably semi-synthetic (?Ah!....we didn?t say it was all synthetic did we?), and, if low priced, invariably the modified mineral type synthetic.

    Please can you explain the grading system? What is meant by the weight of an oil? What does 10W/40 mean for example?

    Weight means viscosity, or resistance to flow. Water and paraffin flow very easily, so they are low or light viscosity. Golden syrup or 140 gear oil do not come out of the can so easily, so they are high or heavy viscosity. Especially with oils, temperature is very, very important. An oil which looks ?heavy? at 20C will be very ?light? at 100C. People sometimes say, ?I drained the oil when the engine was hot and it ran out like water?? so I say, ?Good! It?s supposed to be like that!? The American Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) ratings cover cold starts and ?up and running? viscosities.

    There are two sets of standards, the ?Winter? (W) ratings, and the 100C standard ratings. (?W? does not, repeat not, mean ?weight?!) So a 10W/40 oil has to pass a 10W cold viscosity test at -25C, and a SAE 40 test at 100C. In an oil lab there will be a refrigerated viscosity measuring device for the ?W? tests and another at 100C for the standard SAE tests.

    There are 6 ?W? ratings from the difficult 0W at -35C to the dead easy 25W at -10C, occasionally used in India for example! The whole point of these Winter ratings is to assist cold starts, to get the oil circulating quickly, and to avoid power and fuel wasting drag as the engine warms up.

    Once it is warmed up, the 100C ratings count. There are 5 of these, 20, 30, 40, 50, and 60 although why anybody bothers with 60 in the 21st Century is a mystery to me! Sorry folks, but I?ve got to get technical.

    Viscosity is measured in standard units called ?Centistokes?, names after a Victorian engineer, Sir George Stokes, who used to time ball bearings as they sank through oil. SAE 30 for example is from 9.3 to 12.5 Centistokes, and SAE 40 follows on at 12.5 to 16.3, although most SAE 40 oils are in the middle at about 14. Now this is something most don?t realise: engines do not know what grade of oil they?re running on. They?re not clever enough! So an engine filled with 10W/40 will be running on a viscosity of 14 at 100C, but with a sump temperature of 90C its seeing a viscosity of 18, so as far as the engine is concerned it?s running on SAE 50. Likewise, at 110C, it?s down to 11 Centistokes so it ?thinks? it?s on a SAE 30! (Which is preferable.)

    The lesson is, do not use power and fuel-wasting thick oils in cool climates. A decent 10W/40 or even thinner is perfectly OK unless you?re riding an air-cooled classic with wide clearances and a slow oil pump. Radical race cars use 1300 Suzuki Hyabusas and work them very hard. (Didn?t one take the old Nurburgring absolute record recently?). They use our high-ester 15W/50, but that?s OK because they see oil temps around 130C! (No problem for the oil or the engine, but they do fit special oil seals.) At 130C the true viscosity is 10cSt, so the engine thinks its on a thin SAE 30, which keeps it happy.


    What is the best type of oil to use in a road bike for general riding? Is fully synthetic a waste of money?

    Personally I?d go for a shear-stable ester semi-synthetic, SAE 10W/40 or 10W/30. The ?shear-stable? bit (ie, a decent quality multigrade polymer) is actually more important than the ?synthetic? part! If strapped, I?d go for a shearstable mineral based oil rather than a ?synthetic? of dubious stability that?s probably based on modified mineral oil anyway. Unless you?re covering a huge annual mileage, genuine 100% synthetics are probably an extravagance. High mileage long-distance fans can use a light full synthetic and save on fuel and oil changes, and cut overhaul costs if things get to that stage, but more later?..

    Written by John Rowland, Senior Chemist Fuchs/Silkolene UK
     
    amoreira88 and HotDam like this.
  16. fink

    fink Insider

    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,172
    Likes Received:
    298
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Ardnamurchan Penninsula, Scotland
    Map
    The above post has been heavily edited so I could post it up. If you want to read the full thing let me know.
     
    amoreira88 likes this.
  17. James Bond

    James Bond New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,090
    Likes Received:
    83
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Dixie
    Map
    Good god! Another oil thread. Best oil to use is what makes you feel good. Never heard of a VFR engine being ruined due to the "wrong" oil.

    I use Amsoil 10W-40 oil because, in three VFR's, the transmission shifts best with that brand for me and I don't care why, and no I don't like their MLM but the price is the same. Using non-synthetic oil today is like, well, not logical. Oil threads are where the "experts" disagree.
     
  18. Bubba Utah

    Bubba Utah Insider

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,281
    Likes Received:
    285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Utah
    Map
    I just use the Honda pro4 full synthetic. It says Honda and I think that it was manufactured to meet Hondas guidelines. I will take it to 5,000 and change it. I have 9,000 on the bike so it will last me a year. We could open a bigger can of worms with a post of (Oil/Coolant/Brake Fluid/clutch fluid-what is best) that would be an epic debate with all fluids or lubricants being involved. :chaingun:
     
  19. mikem317

    mikem317 New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I love oil threads.

    I just use Honda Pro 10W-30 Full Synthetic and an OEM engine oil filter.
     
    zroger73 and Thumbs like this.
  20. Igrok

    Igrok New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2018
    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Oil threads are like sex: It doesn't matter HOW MANY TIMES you talk about it, I still get anxious to see the
    responses. :deadhorse:
     
    Honda88 likes this.
Related Topics

Share This Page