6th gen has no headlights or fuel pump...

Hi all, strange electrical gremlin... Riding home, the lights dimmed to half brightness on the bike, including dash. Battery wouldn’t crank the engine when I got home. Fitted new battery, and everything is fine except there are no headlights and the fuel pump doesn’t prime. I’ve checked the fuses in the cockpit, they’re all good. Any thoughts/wisdom much appreciated!

 

That is strange.
The only electrical Achilles heal I knew of on the VFR was the regulator / rectifier. They can go at any point (I think mostly due to overheating) and can either end up under/not charging the battery at all, or over charge the battery causing all sorts of weird n wonderful electrical strange-ness.
Might be worth checking to see if yours needs replacing / break out a Fluke and check the voltage. They’re about 100 bucks, super easy to fit, and offer electrical peace of mind.

Now, I will admit, I can’t see how a faulty r/r would target specifically headlights & fuel pump.. but for sure trying to determine root cause of these issues when there’s a duff r/r in the loop will make life more challenging!
If you do have a duff r/r it may also end up trashing that new battery you fitted..

Just trying to think of other things, I would get searching online and download an electrical wiring diagram for the bike. Then do a bit of system tracing to see if perhaps the headlight and fuel pump share a common earth point. If they do, bingo! Break out the tools and check to see if the earth point is loose. I would also undo the earth point to check for corrosion. Clean up all terminals and securely reassemble. Then test. Fingers crossed for you buddy.
Let us know how you get on.


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Thanks a million Mugenengineer! Great advice and speedy too. I’ll do all that. Much appreciated!

 

You can also check to see if the wiring harness recall has been done.

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...&share_tid=35937&share_fid=35196&share_type=t

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Maybe you've got a dodgy connection in the right switch gear or the plug that joins that to the harness? The kill switch stops the fuel pump, and the starter button cuts out the headlights when you push it. Otherwise maybe you've got some issues with the common earth block on the harness.

 

Sam

Sorry to bring this up but I suspect you may be another candidate for the "Drill" see post #9 on this thread.

https://vfrworld.com/threads/how-to-fix-common-regulator-stator-failures.39277/


It can be easy to jump to the wrong conclusion with electrical gremlins on these bike especially without doing enough checks to identify what the real problem is. (lights dim = fit new battery = problem solved - perhaps - perhaps not).

I am particularly concerned by your comment ".. everything is fine except there are no headlights and the fuel pump won't prime".

Lets be clear - with no "fuel pump running" a vtec will not fire up. So as Terry suggests it may be sensible to also check for problems within the start inhibit functions.
(side stand switch, clutch switch, neutral light, starter switch, starter relay and starter motor).


As for UK/European 6th Gens, there was no wiring/ headlight recall as the loom is different from North American models. I assume we are correct it is a UK spec bike? If you are unsure you can usually tell from the VIN Plate information.

I am however somewhat worried by the precursor event "lights dimming" - which sounds awfully like the typical side effect of the well known VFR charging system gremlins whereby the RR or STATOR gives out.

At which point depending on what diode fails first, a cascade of expensive damage can occur elsewhere. Headlight bulbs are obviously prone to blowing if the "regulator" component in the RR fails and suddenly starts passing the 60+ volts coming from the stator direct into the loom, at which point the master fuse by the battery should quickly overheat and should blow as it tries to pass far too high voltage into the battery - but expensive damage may have already been inflicted..

Once the main fuse goes ( to prevent further input from the stator), it will leave the bike running only the residual energy left in the battery. (so lights get dim and obviously the battery won't last long - it sounds awfully like the drained battery you found when you got home).

Another painfully expensive consequence of that cascade is that whilst the engine is running, the stator windings will still be generating AC volts but without anything consuming the power so the stator windings tend to overhead and short internally.

As you can see from the above - if checking the ignition inhibit system fails to solve the problem, then there are several obvious places you may want to do some simple checks for instance remove the headlight bulb - is it blown? remove other headlight bulb is it blown.. check the main fuse has not blown and then test battery volts with the battery disconnected and then connected - if the volts are well down once connected to the bike, the stator may have fused and be creating a drain.

Whatever it is Good luck and let us know how you get on.


SkiMad

 

Hi everyone, main fuse B was blown, replaced it and she’s running. I’m getting just under 12v with the engine running at the battery...

 

Yippee - but then again maybe not.

So its running again, but with engine at slow tick over (idle) I would usually expect more volts at the battery - typically 13-14.5. Something does not look right.

Do the volts rise to 14+ volts when engine is revved at 5k). If not, I fear you have classic signs of either RR and/or dead/dying stator. = time to do "the drill" linked in my last post.

If you are handy with a multi-meter you should be able to identify what charging system components are failing. If not just read deeper in that thread as I recall posting up on several occasions pretty clear guidance on what to do the checks and understand the results.

Remember the Drill checks need to be done with a healthy battery - if the volts are low charge it up before testing. Also the checks need to be done TWICE = first with the bike cold, and 2nd time after you have taken the bike for at least a 10+ minutes run by which time components will be up to temperature. Sometime items check fine when cold but diodes or even insulation on the stator windings can start to fail when hot and then instead of charging the bike they can rapidly drain the battery. If you need help interpreting the results just post up.

SkiMad

 

Thanks again, SkiMad. I’m going to replace the stator and r/r. Seems the simplest path. The volts stay below 12.5 at higher revs...

 

Replacing both would work, but could be unnecessary, hence a bit of advice.


I think the RR is the prime cause of your problem. The stator (which is expensive) may or may not be affected and can be checked very easily by removing the stator cover and having a look.

If you open the cover and all looks good, then you just need to buy a new stator cover gasket(very small money) and refit the cover. Simples..

As you remove the stator cover, prepare for a tiny amount of oil spill, so put a plastic tub underneath to catch any escaping oil. If however you are greeted by the smell of burnt insulation and some or all of the windings appear crispy black then you need a new Stator - - in which case buy a genuine Honda Stator or perhaps find an electric motor specialist who may be able to rewind the old one for a lot less.



As for the RR - as the volts are not rising to over 14 volts at higher revs then it is almost certainly faulty and I would invest in buying a Shindengen RR rather than fitting another stock Honda RR, which as you now know, have a pretty dismal record.

Read carefully through the post I linked to above and you will see various supply options for Shindengen RRs including RoadsterCycle.com in the States (a great choice but with import dues it will not be cheap). However Yamaha had them fitted as standard on some models (so perhaps try a yamaha dealer or even a breakers yard may supply one for sensible money).

As the Yamaha connector may be different, you may prefer to eliminate the stator-RR connector and just solder the three yellow wires from the stator to respective ones from the RR (its a 3 phase connection so it does not matter which wire goes to which - you just need three separate wires connecting the RR and stator so make sure the 3 joins are secure and well insulated).

As for swapping out the stator, getting the old stator cable out (three yellow wires) and new one in can be fun. The trick is to carefully remove the connector and then thread through just the three yellow wires. You just need a thin jewellers type screwdriver to release the individual pins from the connector. Once the connector is off the stator lead, then attach length of spare electrical flex to the three yellow cables - plenty of insulation tape neatly wrapped aound the join will allow it to be pulled easily through to the stator side of the bike. Then reverse the process - attach the new stator cable (again minus the connector) to the flex you have pulled through and use that to pull it carefully through to the other side Having one person feeding and another gently pulling will minimise the risk of it getting hung up. Don’t forget to reinstate all the cable clamp at the back of the stator housing.

Finally probably an obvious point but be wary of stuff on ebay – sadly there are fakes out there which may look right but may not be the genuine article.

 

S

 

Hi. Well the stator was toast, so I made a good call replacing both. Now have 14.85v at the battery. Also found a breaking wire, one of the three that go to the coil/plug cap connector, so she was running on only three most of the time... soldered and put a blob of glue gun glue round the repair for support till I can replace. Thanks one and all for your insight and support!

 

Thanks for the update.

It is great you found time to provide a conclusion to this thread.

Too often forum members offer advice to owners who have encountered problems with their VFR and then hear nothing more. OK it is understandable that once the problem is resolved people may be more focused on getting out and riding their VFR, but without clear feedback we have no idea whether any of the advice proved pertinent to resolving the problem.

For now it looks like the charging system is healthy - so the only thing to do now is to get your riding gear out and have fun on your VFR!





SkiMad