California Emissions removal

OK, I know I'm probably gonna stir up the nest on this one... but I'm gonna ask it cause it's been buggin me since I got my VFR back in Feb.

I remember clearly being told to remove the canister and pinch the hoses on all the carbs for the CA emissions system that is on the bike. There were some that claimed that it holds back the power the bike could produce and it increases the flow of air in the mix to the carbs. I didn't remove the system due to the fact that the bike had already been registered in AZ as a California model and since I still had to run it through emissions inspection I was told that they would check for the canister and an intact system.

The bike passed emissions and the techs there never even gave a glance to see if the system was in place. Apparently Maricopa County is doing away with the whole emissions testing for motorcycles in the next year or two so they got real lax with inspections... but that's another topic to cover.

Bottom line, I was discussing at school with my Instructor about whether removing the system would increase performance (he brought it up in lecture) and he stated that in all of his years running bikes on the Dyno that he never saw any improvement by removing it on any bike model, including the VFR. I brought up the fact that it was told to me on here that it would and he was curious as to why those of you who believe it does think that way. Quite frankly, so do I.

So, my question to all of you is this. Does anyone have any proof that taking a stock Gen 1 or Gen 2 VFR and removing the emissions control will improve the performance of the bike? Has anyone ran it on a Dyno or noticed improved fuel mileage afterward?

I'm just really curious about this and was hoping that someone out there could give me a clear answer and back it up?

 

I doubt it helps much but given the age of the bike the removal of the lines (where they connect to the carbs in particular) will eliminate many problems with air leaks given the age of the bike. It is like keeping an air pump system on an older California chevy in good working condition, why would you?The last two I worked on for piss poor performance had most of the lines cracked wide open from age and I could have repaired the system or just chucked it in the trash, A couple of minutes to remove or several hours to restore it to factory condition.

 

When the first smog devices were made for cars and the state of California came out with the MPVC Catalogue, it cost the consumers thousands of dollars. Many people were ripped off and some cars ran worse. The so called NOX devices were haphazardly installed. That was when the classification of crank case emission systems were devided into 4 catagories. About 10 years later it was found that the devices actually INCREASED nitrous oxide levels. Consumers got no money back. The charcoal canister just helps get rid of fumes venting from the fuel tank while the car or motorcycle is not running. No increase or decrease in power. The diverter valve or egr triggered on start up by manifold vacuum just redirects the fumes back to the engine or charcoal filter. No increase or decrease in power. Cars that had smog pumps produced about 5lbs of air pressure to lean the mixture. If the smog pump failed because the little plastic paddles wore out, THEN the engine would run very rich and increase pollution. The air injection systems were very troublesome and many times if the EGR valve failed then a hole could get burned in one of the metal tubes and you would have an air intake leak basically. It all boils down to this. If there are fumes the manufacturers try to send it back through the engine while it is running and when it is turned off the fumes have to go to the charcoal filter. When you start the engine any fumes in the charcoal cannister get sucked back into the engine and get reburned. No increase or decrease in power. However.... It did take about 5hp for the engine to run a smog pump on the cars that had one. But like I say if you disconnect the smog pump it will run VERY rich all the time unless you do something to change that.

By the way if a car need a smog check and it needed a new smog pump the pump came with a tag that sais the car could not get smog tested untill 500 miles was on the smog pump. BUT how do you drive the car if your temp sticker is already 60 days out?
Answer...A mechanic freind of mine at a garage who did all the smog exams toled me it did not matter if the smog pump was "broke in" made no difference on the state certified smog machine.

Also I was having my SAAB car smogged and they had the hood open to do the testing. That day a state represetative was there to watch the testing.
When the idle suddenly changed and increased the smog tester said "whats that?" I stepped in and told the rep that the SAAB book said it was supposed to have an external fan blowing on the engine compartment so that the engine would not overheat and cause the engine timing to change and prevent damage to the engine. (I showed them the picture in the workshop manual) The rep passed my car. The state rep could see that i knew more about it than they did. Each and every car is DIFFERENT.
Many smog testers are NOT mechanics anymore.

Good thing I did my homework and stuck around !
Some poor person that just leaves the car and trusts them gets who knows what.

 

OK, so I get what your saying about the smog pumps... my buddy Greg had an old Bronco that had one on it that he installed on his 429 Cobra Jet so that it would pass emissions cause it had to run rich being as pumped up as he had it (he had a switch under the dash to kick it on like a fan or compressor) so I know how they work and all. My question was mainly about why it was that quite a few jumped up and said to remove the system when I first got the bike.

Am I to assume, as Toe stated, that it was just due to age of the system and to avoid the inevitable vacuum leaks?

My system is air tight thanks to a new hose at the #4 vent. It had cracked and was allowing an amazing amount of air to enter the system and I was getting puffs of air out of the right exhaust because of it. As far as I can tell the canister is functional even though it's the ugliest part of the bike and strangely large for its application in my opinion.

I appreciate the input, and encourage anyone elses opinions on this. It's just one of those topics that's bugged me since I got all up in my girls business and cleaned her up.

:biggrin:

 

As far as the valves and hoses.... Yes things used to be quite a mess back in the 70's.

But a lot of it was ignorance and fear about the man taking power away from the people. You know. But the people were right in a way because those early NOX systems did not work correctly on all cars and it did make some of them messed up.

As far as the charcoal filters have you ever heard on anyone replacing one?
Do they sell them at Kragen auto for a reasonable price?....NO

But I have cut a flap in the cannister to check out how they are made and found out you can cut a flap and open them up and go to the local pet store and buy a $4.00 bottle of the charcoal made for fish aquariums and refill the charcoal filter. then you put some ABS plumbing glue on the seam and tape the flap back down until the glue dries. Even put a nylon black wire tie on it to make sure it stays closed. I mount them with wire ties too.
No big mystery. The charcoal combines with the gas fumes and the interaction cuts down on the smell too in your garage. No down side. ANd when all this started ther were no vacuum hose routing diagrams and that was a real bitch when people ripped them off of cars and sold you a car and you had to figure it all out so you could go get it smogged again. But hey I got a great deal on some fine cars that no one wanted to get smogged, and all I had to do was hook up the vacuum lines again.

Now with internet rescources it is no problem and all cars have the underhood sticker that shows the vacuum hose routing. Also the shop manuals show it too .(Usually)

 

This is an old post but still for sale.

http://vfrworld.com/forums/1st-2nd-...93-f-s-cherry-california-gen-2-emissions.html

 

just rip that shit off your bike screw the man!!!!!!!!!! and your the man Donald I guess you got the dumb ass timid inspection guy ...The tech doesn't "pass" your car the machines do all measuring and calibrating..... all the tech does is start and stop it and attach the hoses to the exhaust and everything else that is connected..