Chain adjustment question (rear sprocket has wear from the link sideplates)

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by woody77, Aug 9, 2015.

  1. woody77

    woody77 New Member

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    Does this look like an adjustment issue, or due to replacement sprockets not perfectly lining up correctly?

    20150809-DSC_6308.jpg
    20150809-DSC_6309.jpg
    20150809-DSC_6310.jpg

    (and does this look like too much slack for a 2nd gen VFR, with the supertrapp exhaust, everything unloaded? I know some of the bikes, like the Hawk, will have the chain resting on various things when the bike is without a passenger).

    20150809-DSC_6305.jpg
     
  2. seano

    seano New Member

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    Something's gotta be off with the alignment of those sprockets if you're getting that much wear on one side, and nothing on the other.
     
  3. FJ12rydertoo

    FJ12rydertoo Member

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    Yeah, looks like your chain line from front to rear sprocket could be off causing the wear. You need to check the parallelism of the sprockets. For sure something is out of line.
     
  4. woody77

    woody77 New Member

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    Offset issue, or rear wheel angle? (one I can fix easily, the other is going to require a new set of sprockets).
     
  5. wagzhp

    wagzhp New Member

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    Looks like the rear tire is angled. 2nd gen bike has a conventional swing arm, and I'd say the tension adjusters on each side are out of adjustment with each other.
     
  6. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Agree with the above !! :disturbed: Wheel alignment problem.

    A new sprocket ?? How long has it been in use ?
     
  7. woody77

    woody77 New Member

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    12K miles? I dunno. It's been on there a while. I'm definitely going to bump up new sprockets and chains on the maintenance priority as a result of this. I'll check the chain a bit more closely tonight as well, see how the side-plates look on that side. Checking alignment will be fun. I don't have a centerstand, and I no longer have a rear-stand (it's time to get one).
     
  8. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    Dumb question, as I can't see the countershaft sprocket....Does the countershaft sprocket have a larger shoulder on one side, or is the sprocket exactly the same on both sides?

    Some Honda countershaft sprockets have a large shoulder on one side to provide the correct offset. If the sprocket isn't installed with the shoulder on the correct side you can end up with the chain being misaligned front to rear, even though the axle adjusters are adjusted correctly. I have also seen this when the wheel spacers were really close on length and were mistakenly switched.
     
  9. woody77

    woody77 New Member

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    @NorCal, that's a good point. I need to pick up a rear-stand (mine went away when I moved out of the country and I put the bike into storage, and haven't picked one up since moving back to the US). Then I'll get it up and start poking around at it. I can't remember off-hand if the rear axle spacers are the same or different, but I _do_ remember that the sprocket was funky.
     
  10. woody77

    woody77 New Member

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    Picked up a rearstand today and got it up where I can poke at it some. And then I ran out of light, and can't find my service manual, so I wasn't going to undo anything with crucial torque values.

    The chain is done. It's dead, Jim. But I kinda figured that, anyway. Lots of kinked links, and the rollers are loose. Checking back (in the forums here), I put this chain on 8 years and 13K miles ago. So yeah, it's time.

    Looking at the wheel/axle spacers, the left/right are different, but the rear brake is right where it should be, so I don't think that's the issue (and I think the spacers might be different sizes. One of the 2nd gen gurus would know better (toe, squirrel, etc).

    The chain is definitely taking a dogleg to hit both sprockets. It rubs the outside of the teeth on the rear sprocket, and the inside of the teeth on the front sprocket. So either the front sprocket is on backwards, or the rear axle is _really_ out of alignment. But it doesn't appear to be (although I'm going to recheck in better light over the weekend).

    And I have a hazy memory of thinking that the JT front sprocket wasn't quite like the oem one (it definitely doesn't have the rubber dampers on it). Per the JT website, it's the correct sprocket (JTF339-16). And I didn't snag the rear sprocket's part number).

    It's possible that this wasn't a problem until when the adjuster broke on the left side. That was a fiasco. Here's the link to that: http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthread.php/40259-Trying-to-figure-out-how-i-did-this

    So I'll just get new sprockets/chains ordered, and get it all apart, and see what I find when it's disassembled. And do that on a weekend when I have time, and good light. (I miss my garage).
     
  11. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    Interested to see what you eventually uncover.....best of luck with the "project".
     
  12. woody77

    woody77 New Member

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    Yeah, My guess is that I'll get it all together with new parts and it will be fine. Alignment is the only real question at that point. I'll need to pull the fairing to do the alignment with the string method, but that only takes about 5 minutes. I set up to use that method to check things today and discovered that the front fairing lowers get in the way unless you do it on the bottom of the tire, which isn't as accurate as doing it further up the tire. We'll see what happens.
     
  13. woody77

    woody77 New Member

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    I think I found the cause.

    The JTF339 front sprocket is 14.5mm wide, the JTF333 is 16.7mm wide.

    JT's catalog lists the JTF333 for the 1986-1989 VFR750s (http://www.jtsprockets.com/catalogue/model/528). But lists the JTF339 for the '86 VFR700/750s.

    My bike has the 339 front sprocket right now. Previously it was the oem sprocket, which I remember being funky (rubber dampers on it), and IIRC, thicker. And the current sprocket (339), can slide in/out on the output shaft by a hair.

    The thicker 333 sprocket would be held firmly in place, and using it would move the front sprocket centerline 1.1mm outboard, which would probably be enough to alleviate the wear on the rear sprocket.

    So I think I"m going to order the 333 front, a new 1334 rear, and a new DID 530 x-link 110-link chain.
     
  14. woody77

    woody77 New Member

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    New sprockets and chains arrived today.

    For the VFRs, depending on where you look, I find the following listed as OEM replacements:

    - JTF333-16
    - JTF339-16
    - Sunstar 51216

    As far as I can tell, the ONLY option from Sunstar for any of the VFRs (pretty much ever) is the 51216 (for a 16-tooth sprocket). This is a 14.5mm sprocket (since I just measured the one that arrived today). The JT333 is 16.7mm wide, and the JT 339 is 14.5mm.

    W. T. F.

    Anyway, I'll put all this together, align the rear wheel properly, and see what happens.

    As an aside, I ordered the Sunstar 51216 instead of the JRF 333.16 because Sunstar's fitment page was consistent, and I was able to use partsfish to get the OEM part number for the front sprocket, and look that up in Sunstar's catalog. I figure that's about as accurate as I can get for a match...
     
  15. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    In the past I have used laser levels to determine the exact centerline, front to rear. I have a Rhinomoto Alignment Tool to get the rear wheel spaced precisely, then I mount the laser level to the side of the rear sprocket and then it's just measuring and doing the math. This will tell you exactly where the centerline of the countershaft sprocket should be. That way you can determine the correct countershaft sprocket orientation, or if you need to shim or machine the sprocket face to put it exactly where it needs to be. There is free horsepower to be gained by getting the sprockets perfectly aligned.....back to back dyno runs with just 1 or 2mm of shimming or machining can gain 1-3 hp on a dyno, the chain and sprockets last longer and it is much smoother.

    It might seem like overkill, but anything worth doing, is worth doing right.
     
  16. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Agreed. I am glad to see you got the bike off the trailer for those dyno runs. Any chafing on the chrome bits from the tiedown straps?
     
  17. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    My post has been validated by the omnipotent Billy. More of your pathetic shit. There is something fucking wrong with you, dude.
     
  18. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Gawshalmighty, the last time we connected, I thought I detected a sense of humor or were you BSing aboot laughing? I have to assume you've changed your mind again.
    So, once again, do you just have all this work done on your bikes to ride them or it one of those deals like a shitload of old farts at rod shows who go from show to show so they can affect cool they learned from watching "Grease" too many times?

    Thanks for the profile. I have been at times been mistaken for John Barrymore.
     
  19. woody77

    woody77 New Member

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    Annnnywayyyy, bringing the thread back on-topic...

    I swapped sprockets and chain today, using the disassembled rear end as an excuse to give everything a really good cleaning up (at least the swingarm and the front sprocket area).

    The front sprocket looked pristine. It was so pristine I almost didn't put in the new sprocket, but I did that anyway. The teeth of the rear socket were fine (the side, less so), and the chain showed no wear at all on the link plates. But there's 110:44 ratio of wear on the sprocket vs. the chain (since they're even counts of teeth and links, the side plates always land in the same place.

    But the new setup, properly aligned (long string method), and the chain still sits to the outboard side of the rear sprocket. I'm thinking that either the swingarm is slightly tweaked, or this is "the way it is" on this bike. I'll just be keeping an eye on rear sprocket for wear. If I'd had something to put a 1-2mm shim in, I'd have considered that, but as things currently stand, the sprocket isn't pinned against the oil seal, and so I think that that is correct. I'll post up photos later.
     
  20. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    When damage is that apparent, throwing money and parts at something to fix it is not a great approach. Fifty pesos says you are right aboot something being tweaked.

    Or you could source oot the Parisian version of all those tools and a couple of hours on a metric dynamometer.
     
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