Honda at the New York City bike show. My first impression

The Honda VFR and the Legacy.
The 1983 ( bike was released in ‘82) VF750f Interceptor was breed as a racer and continued up to 1989 with John Ashmead’s last hurrah at the Daytona 200, then started to migrate into the technological flagship for Honda.

Pic of 2nd gen. on display

1994 VFR 750R “ [ The VFR ]has no equal in all of motorcycling. It is not the cheapest sport bike. It is not the fastest or the lightest or the quickest. It is simply the best.” Motorcyclist 1994, May 2007

2002 VFR 800 “ What the Interceptor does best can’t be quantified “ “ The VFR 800 remains the one of the best -balanced, most versatile street bikes produced at any time by any manufacturer “ Matthew Miles Cycle World Jan 2010

Just a few of many quotes that can be traced back to the Honda VFR, whether it be a 1st generation or 6th generation It appears to have a cult following and a very versatile motorcycle.

So what doest the 7th generation bring us?
“ I didn’t realize that motorcycling was missing out on this technology until I rode the VFR “ Blake Conner, Cycle World magazine. - I guess we shall see if it stands up to the hype once members here get a chance to ride it.

VFR 1200- 2010........................ VFR 800 - 2002 - 2009

Wheel base 1545mm................................... 1460mm
Rake 25 degrees.................................25.5 degrees
Trail 101mm.......................................100mm
Weight 591 / 613lbs DTC..........................469lbs
Fuel 4.9 gal 31mpg............................5.8gal 38mpg


We all know about the engines so I won’t post all the differences, but you see they size up about the same.

So lets now jump in to my impression of the new VFR 1200.
Technology hmmmmm????? Well it looks like it is here to stay , like it or not.
Auto transmission, well you can hit a button and let the bike shift for you. Or you can flick thru the gears with your left thumb and index finger. Anyone who has driven a high end car with a dual clutch transmission knows that it is quicker the a full manual . Also after watching the press release dvd in NYC I can say that I would be interested in taking one for a rip and trying the push button system out.

Shaft drive?? I don’t really see any way to get a smooth ride and shifts from the DTC with a chain drive, so shaft drive it is. No more chain maintenance at least. As for me{ Honda please reconsider the shaft drive on the manual transmission model and go with a chain drive, I’m sure you can mount a SSSA from a 6th gen. To make it a chain drive, that will allow us some gear change freedom. }

Uni-cam!? YES ADJUSTIBLE ROLLER ROCKERS!!! Be gone shim under bucket, no more having to remove, then reinstall the cams a couple of times. not to mention “special parts/ tools for the V-tec, THAT HONDA DOESN’T SELL!!

I wish that Honda had blessed us with the V-5, this uses an extra cylinder that adds power as well as eliminating vibrations. As we move deeper into the engine of the 1200, a 76 degree V-4 with a 28 degree crankpin off set, which eliminates the need for a power robbing balance shaft. The rear two cylinders reside inboard center of the crank allowing the cylinders to be narrower. I must say 90 percent of the engines torque at 4,000RPM and 170 HP is not too shabby. I am all for MotoGP technology!! This engine seems to have some.

Fit and finish is still second to none. I don’t think it will win any beauty contests either, I must say though it does look much better in person.




photo by butzip

photo by butzip

photo by butzip

As it is the talk of the web, it appears to draw a constant large crowd.

Maybe redesign that tank flowing into the fairing there, into a tank that can hold more fuel?


I did get the VFRW sticker on it, the backing in my hand proves it.
( Guys maybe get a booth and sell the VFRW mugs and shirts at your local shows??)




I prefer the red, but two different looks of the V-5 VFR 1000 that should have been.
Honda, you were this close to my technological flagship model.

I deeply regret in my original post I forgot to thank two fellow members.
PhotosByHamza and butzip for allowing me to post their pictures.
Thank you.

 

Thanks for the writeup Kev. Friggin Socky, how'd he get in there??? That little dude gets into everything!

 

Thanks Chuck, as you know I was quick to bash the new VFR at first. Must be from Hondas teasing me with the V-5 rumors and then ripping my heart out when it did not go into production.
I must say after going to the press release in NYC, it has peaked my curiosity quite a bit.
Seeing the video of the bike on the track, well it still rips it up and the sound coming from the engine was just awesome.

I guess I will reserve final judgment until I get a chance to swing a leg over it.

PS Socky is my tech guy. LOL

 

Ah, the RC212 V5.... I was a nice dream. I did ask the guy working the Honda Display about the RC and if Honda may ever coinsider folliwing through with what could possably be "Interceptor" or VFR1000R. He looked at me like I asked him about brain surgery.:crazy:

 

Good job on sticking with the script.

 

My conversation with the Honda guys was more along the Moto GP rule change in 2012 and Honda might go back to the V-5 thus making it into production was going to be a no go.

But seeing the rules as listed now. There will be a limit of 4 cylinders.

Maybe Honda will hear us and reward us w/ a VFR 1000 on its 30th anniversary in 2012, perhaps a thank you to all of the VFR owners. Maybe?

 

NCB, script huh. That coming from you “ouch”

I gave it my honest opinion.

We all called for an updated bike, with some racing upgrades and more sport.
The new VFR 1200 is what we got. I remember and still read about the displeasure of the v-tec by some people.

I wrote about what I am interested in the most.
76 degree and lighter and more compact engine. ( ck’d off my list Honda delivered )
Adjustable rockers. ( love it )
The DTC transmission.. Not on my list but from what I’ve read I would like to try it out.
Would I buy that version? No I would not and I don’t see Danny tooling around on the number 3 Honda equipped with DTC either. Or the shaft drive for that matter, it’s the only way to make the DCT work IMO.

I see no lies or half truths in Hondas claims I have repeated in my thread. We asked for an updated VFR and Honda delivered, albeit IMO a much over the top DTC model.

I am also certain Honda will sell this motorcycle and maybe just maybe Honda will hear our calls and bless us with an 2011 base model with a chain drive. ( I would hope this will drop some weight ) A bike that I think would be a little closer to the bike we called for originally.

 

I was just jerking your chain to see how you would react. I know you are in a tough position and had to play it safe. I believe that your criticism has been harsher than what you have put forth here, but it's your thread and your deal. I'll wait until they tell you that you can't test ride the 2010 because you are a current 6g owner.

 

I expected a Honda Motors rep to "stick with the script" at the Cleveland show. But I'll tell ya, I wasn't the only guy griping about what it's not. Like DiVeFR said when I posted about the Cleveland show when I got home last nite: "Honda is (from previous posts/reads) is forceing the new VFR down our throats. That this is the bike of bikes. It may shock them that the VFR following isn't quickly jumping on this bandwagon."
http://vfrworld.com/forums/general-vfr-discussions/28702-honda-cleveland-cycle-show.html
I fully respect the power plant of this bike. With displacement as big as it is it make it hard to imagine it in a more sportlike bike. I expect that the fur flying over gen 7 has yet to begin. We aint seen nothing yet! Were gonna praise, gripe, adore, belittle, love and hate this bike in a way that makes the gen5 vs gen6 rivalry looks like 5th graders at recess. Where's KC-10 FE? I pick him on my team! LET'S GET READY TO RUMMMBBBLLLE!!!!!!

 

Maybe Honda thinks since we are all so awestruck with the impressive power and performance of the great Harley Davidso... OK, Bag That. I can't even bring myself to type it.

 

I've been waiting to see what kind of write up you would do.

Like many of us here at VFRW, I have no special loyalty to Honda that would preclude me seeing other brands as fitting my needs or would blind me completely to flaws in any Honda product. You most likely don't either. I know I had mentioned to you not to let Honda turn you into a shill for them by seducing you with their wiles, but honestly, if you had decided to become John the Baptist for the VFR1200 that's entirely your business and if others dont like it they can suck it, me included heheee. Seems to me like you gave it an honest opinion.

Since I am not privy to planning sessions at Honda when it comes to bike developement, or marketing, all I am left with is impressions of the finished product and what it says to me. Honda has decided to make the 1200 a big shiny locomotive serving as a platform for some tech goodies in the form of an auto trans, rather than build slick small stilletto of a bike. So be it. Lots and lots of people out there never buy a first year iteration of a new machine, waiting instead to see how it will pan out, so its left to the brand loyalists many times to give a new product its shakedown. Will they sell a ton of them? I just dont think so, but who knows?

The bike doesnt appeal to me greatly. I most likely will look to other brands for my next bike. Since Honda has yet to send me a gold embossed invitation to come ride their new bikes, and probably won't, then so be it heeheheeeeee. I am crushed that they wont listen to me and appear completely unworried about what VFourbear likes.

On to the next.

 

For the record it was not an easy review to type and it took three shots to get it to the point of not seeming to push Hondas agenda and not being overly harsh.. It seems I still kind of missed the mark, but I think I came across neutral.
After thinking about what I said and how I came across at the press release ( Reg I told them pretty much word for word the description of the VFR you and many others Like myself hoped Honda would deliver ) I thought I would use kindler and gentler words for this post then I did that night and as promised also, the link to the thread has been forwarded to the same Honda guy who made the Press invite happen, so maybe this will give Honda some new direction for delivering the VFR we so desperately call for.
(my only obligation was to write and post my honest opinion of the new model and that is what I delivered)

Bear and Norcalboy, I think the technology side is intriguing, but maybe Honda should have continued this over the top technological wonder and added a carbon frame and swing arm and maybe a composite or alloy shaft drive to lessen the weight. After all the engine is lighter and it is logical that the weight on the standard transmission base model is not too far over the weight of the 6th generation and comes from the shaft drive.

Honda refusing to let previous VFR owner ride the bike IMO is liken to shooting oneself in the foot. Also the fact that no "official" price is yet listed.
At some point the bike will be compared to the previous model and other bikes as well.

My love of the VFR comes from not the VFR itself but the RC-30 fully HRC kitted bike that I once had the opportunity to ride for a few laps and is also based on the racing heritage that was the basis of the original bike and the V-4. It was a ride I will never forget and I told myself then I will own a VFR at some point.
I proudly own a ‘02 and I don’t see getting rid or it any time soon.

Oh and in hind sight the DTC could be seen as a very big upgrade to the power shifter mod.
Your thoughts on this? IMO I don’t have any use for the power shifter, I prefer to do this without any electrical help.

 

and what Honda will do with the feed back given on the bike as well. Next year will tell if they listen.

 

I was at the show, and in all honesty, the bike just isn't "Sporty" enough for me. It looks like a full blown Tourer to me. But hey, what the fuck do I know.

I know I like the Lamborghini Gallardo with the Stick Shift instead of the paddles because I have driven both. So until I can ride this Automatic hi-tech contraption, I will wait to talk shit... Hell it might change my whole way of thinking about Sport Bikes, although I highly doubt it, you just never know.

The FIRST thing I would do if I were to purchase the VFR1200F would be to get an Aftermarket Exhaust, the stock one is just hideous to me. I'm also partial to Michelin 2CT's...but that's just me. The look of the bike can grow on me if it performs great, so as soon as I find out where and when I can ride one, then I'll make my decision on weather I like it or not. Right now, without riding it, my decision can go either way.

As Kev mentioned, it's heavy, but if it doesn't feel heavy when you ride it, who cares? We're just going to have to wait and see...

 

02 Rider, only you will know if you "missed your mark" in writing your impressions after the show, but I think you pretty well remained neutral. That may not make the folks that paid for your show too happy, but they get what they get.

I imagine some will see the 1200 as one more in a long line of bikes that no one specifically asked for, but will wind up being very popular. Others, the purists out there, will see it as filled with completely unnecessary techno.

People whose focus is riding fast in medium to short bursts will pine for the Aprilia RSV4 and wonder why Honda didnt build that and call it a VFR

People that focus on riding loooong distances will not be too happy with stopping for gas too often. Kawasaki Concours anyone?

Then there's price.

Competition is fierce out there, hence my comment on brand loyalty being a factor in a world filled with various choices.

I predict that there will be left over VFR1200s at the end of the year for anyone that wants to wait, unless they decide to build very few of them, which is something I dont know and really arent all that interested in spending time finding out. But as a friend pointed out to me, fully 2/3 or more of the people out there that own VFRs own it for one reason, its a V4....period...something about a V4 motor gets certain people hot I guess. Also, the demographic for the VFR is older bikers with money. So maybe it will be a hit, but I doubt it.

But I liked your write up.

I dont have any personal experience with the power shifter mod you mentioned, all I have is some opinions obtained by reading what some folks racing sv650s thought of it, which is something anyone could read, and they felt it was a worthwhile modification, but took some tweaking to get it working correctly. Beyond that, I know what its meant to do, but I dont see it being a street bike necessary mod. Engineering and producing an entire DCT to fit a bike seems an enormous effort to achieve just that. But you know engineers........

 

the motorbike mfr's usually take some time before they introduce any model with significant change from its previous form - usually takes 5 years b/c of R&D and retooling (esp. code writing for the machine tools). For all we know, Honda might be back to the drawing table as we speak. Personally, I've been disappointed with what the mfr's have introdeced in the last 3 years - just some ugly stuff out there and the 1200 isn't far from ugly with that tank and headlight. The question is how much of the customer feedback will Honda absorb and honor? I would be satisfied if Honda introduced the CBR as a VFR with all the superbike features - then I could have both VFR and VCBR.

Hamza - +1 on that exhaust - what were they thinking? Again, all the mfr's are selling bikes with these hideous exhaust pipes, esp. Kawi and Honda

 

Nice, love the part with the decal Good score. I tried that, but way to many folks around to pull it off smoothly, well done. Oh yea, nice write up.
FWIW I think I got it figured out what Honda gave us, seems they took the two up part to heart and gave us a VFR with two up capability, call it a sport bike for two? only way I can to myself figure out the why???? Honda made the bike the way they did. I recall a lot of folks wanted a better two up machine and of coarse with that came size, Doh!! To bad they couldn't include all the high tech goodies they all ready have. Any way it is what it is, maybe when I slow down hahaha I could be tempted to get one :crazy: by then these will be able to be had at a decent price.