I have been at H-D

Discussion in 'Anything Goes' started by Big_Jim59, Nov 10, 2018.

  1. Big_Jim59

    Big_Jim59 Member

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    It has been a while since I posted to VFRWorld.com. I have a good excuse. Nine months ago I was hired as the Marketing Manager for a Harley-Davidson dealership. I have never worked so hard in all my life. I have planned and executed events every weekend. I have planned Bike Nights and riding events. I have hired bands, cooked food, procured pretty girls, staged bikini bike washes, hired food trucks, staged hole-in-one contests, danced in a bra for charity and more. I produced a newsletter every week, updated the website banners and event pages, posted to Facebook and Instagram, produced videos and wrote radio spots. I kept the team member uniforms, shopped for supplies plus I kept the HOG member mileage and the bank account.

    I had to beg product managers for deals and specials and when I got anything I had to write it so that it was approved by MAP (Minimum Advertised Price.) In short I have been very busy. Yesterday (Friday) I was fired. My boss said it was for a lack of attention to detail but I think it was because bike sales have fallen to a trickle. October was a horror show with hard rain almost every day and over the weekends. I thought I would take the opportunity to post some observations as an outsider that was once an insider. Bear in mind I never sold my VFR or made a secret out of what I rode and why.
    1. Harley-Davidson makes damn good motorcycles. I have routinely seen bikes with well over 80,000 miles on their original engines. They do not leak and if they ever do they either have a neglectful owner or a bad service problem.

    2. There is something magical about riding a big Harley. I am a sport bike guy, I admit that, but that big twin sure has a siren's call.

    3. Harley is in big trouble. The average age of the big Harley buyer is over 60 and the buyers are diminishing. I heard many say that “they had bought their last bike.”

    4. If you buy a Harley new or used from a dealer they have a plan to part you from every dime you have to spend. Be prepared.

    5. The people I worked with were more accommodating of my particular motorcycle choice than I had expected. Many had experience with metric brands or actively owned other brands of bikes. I was never made to feel unwelcome on rides and I often showed up on my Y2K VFR 5th Gen.

    6. I never had a issue with 1%ers. I am sure it comes up but we were always respectful and got the same treatment in return.

    7. Harley is going to have to do something about its product line but I have no idea what. The true Harley believer wants them to keep making big bore air cooled twins and they can’t and meet air quality and power standards of today. They could build smaller cheaper bikes like the XG500 but Honda does it better cheaper. Metrics have ATVs, UTVs and watercraft to sell. Harley just has the big bikes and motorclothes.

    8. I want to be optimistic about Harley’s chances but I swear the faithful Harley-Davidson true believer is their worst enemy.
     
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  2. OOTV

    OOTV Insider

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    Sorry you lost your job Jim, interesting view of the inside you were able to see too.
     
  3. weevee

    weevee New Member

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  4. REVTMOLO

    REVTMOLO New Member

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    I have no real beef with Harley. They make some good looking bikes and use good materials to do it. It's their owners I find less than approachable. Not always, mind you. I know (and ride with) guys on Harleys that are terrific but I have come across far too many of them that seem to have the idea in their head they can look down on others because they own a Harley or that Harley is the only bike there is.

    Example: I have a victory Vegas 8-ball that I absolute love. Great bike with lots of power and torque. One of my co-workers has a Harley Street glide. Really nice looking bike.

    When I found my Vegas I was really happy and excited because that was a bike I'd been talking about for a pretty long while. I mentioned it to him I was going up to NY to look at it. He looked at me blankly and said, "What are you getting THAT for? Why don't you just buy a Harley?" So I explain that I really prefer the look of the Vegas and that it had more power and torque than a Harley at a lower cost at which point he starts trying to sell me on screaming Eagle packages.

    I asked him why he rode a Harley. His response? "Because it's a harley".

    You are right that Harleys customers are it's own worst enemy. There seems to be this idea that you have to be "in the club" in order to participate. Well, that's no way to get anyone to join. That's how you close your doors to new riders. This guy certainly sealed that deal for me.

    Harley could do a few things to improve their situation. First and foremost though is stop selling bikes that are overpriced and underpowered. No one EVER says "I wish I had less power" or "I wish I'd paid more". Not all of their bikes are like this but a lot are.

    They need to kick the "REAL Harley guys" to the curb. Those guys are worthless. Just like "REAL Corvette guys" that have prevented GM from producing a mid engine Corvette for all these years. There is a HUGE used market they can buy from and Harley can still sell them parts. This opens the door for more modern bikes and more sales.

    .02 given and worth as much.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
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  5. James Bond

    James Bond Member

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    I think you're dead on right. In addition, generations after baby boomers, in general, don't have the money, many would rather stare at electronic devices than do anything else, don't participate in the outdoors, and don't see ANY value in things like HD's, Corvettes, or living in a nice house, etc. In general, they will be fine with driving old Hyundai's, Kias, and putting coffee can mufflers on old Honda cars. They aren't money motivated and will never find the things in live that more saved money and lack of debt will offer them. There are exceptions of course but the demographics in this country have changed drastically.

    I disagree with the OP that the quality of a HD is good. They have too many recalls. It's also obvious that HD is grasping for new products that they hope will keep them alive. A 35 to $40K bike won't do it. I agree with the second poster that I don't like the people that ride HD's, in general. I owned a HD many years back and you don't meet the nicest people on a HD. They have to be some of the most judgmental and arrogant people on the planet when the best thing they own is a HD that they owe money on.

    That's just my opinion but a fact is that HD isn't doing well and is displaying desperation. If a dealership in Dallas felt compelled to hire a person like the OP to go through the antics and backflips to sell a motorcycle then fail and fire that person, then bad news had arrived for that dealer and others. HD is the proverbial "dead man walking". It's only a matter of time. I love passing a gaggle of HD's on my VFR. Don't ask me why. Maybe it's because a VFR is a better machine that stays out of the shop and goes very well. People aren't buying VFR's either. Honda doesn't market motorcycles much either.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
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  6. duccmann

    duccmann Member

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    Once all the boomers are gone, think that just might me the last nail in the coffin.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  7. Big_Jim59

    Big_Jim59 Member

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    My 2000 VFR is hands down the best motorcycle I have ever owned.

    Harley has build a business model on upgrades and the general public says "why?" Why not just build it fast to start with? They have recalls but i did see a lot of very reliable bikes and I saw mechanics that did a lot of accessory installs.

    I love the Livewire. It's not going to be a sales success but that's not the point. It was never intended to be a volumn seller or at least not from the start. It will generate a lot of positive press that will put the Motor Company beyond the leather clad bandito image. I am sure H-D will survive but they may need a dose of fresh blood and fresh ideas before it happens.

    You are right about a good number of people. To them H-D is they live and their value. It was a good experience. I am glad I got to work for the Bar and Shield even though I am not a true believer.
     
  8. bk94si

    bk94si Member

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    I think it is only a matter of time before H-D disappears completely. Good luck with the job hunt.

    I hate all the Harley riders with no mufflers. It gives all motorcyclists a bad name.
     
  9. REVTMOLO

    REVTMOLO New Member

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    Indian isn't going to do much better. Their bikes are ludicrously expensive and their latest release looks like a Harley! The FTR looks nice, but the want over 15K fir it and quite frankly there are other options that perform better and cost less.

    I still can't understand why Polaris shut down Victory. Solid bikes with solid reputations and a much more modern look than Harley. This heritage crap is out of control and getting old.

    BTW, just to be clear. I got mine after the shutdown was announced. I'm not some like
    huge fan boy or anything. I liked the Vegas and that was about it. That said I thought they were on the right track. Except the Vision. Jesus those things were hideous.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2018
  10. Big_Jim59

    Big_Jim59 Member

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    Maybe it's just me but I think all bike sales are in trouble. Bikes are big ticket items. You have to have the cash to buy used and no one does. You have to have good credit and a down to buy new and the kids don't have either. If you buy used you have get a late model with a pretty hefty price to get a note on one. I think the bikes that are selling are Groms and scooters.

    Harley has to big an install base to go belly up but the glory days are over at least for the near term.
     
  11. REVTMOLO

    REVTMOLO New Member

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    One thing my local dealer did that totally turned me off was how they priced thier used bikes. I'm all for these guys getting a fair price for thier bike, but thier price tag shows a base price for the bike, then lists out all of the aftermarket accessories and how much they are adding to the price for each part. Now call me crazy, but any time I've ever traded in ANY vehicle I was told (by the dealer of course) that my aftermarket parts were worthless because customization was too hard to find a buyer for.

    I'd be surprised to hear they gave the seller anything at all for those parts they are marking up for.
     
  12. Big_Jim59

    Big_Jim59 Member

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    Any custom part is just lost value. Bike value is based on condition and mileage. Period. I love the guys on Craigslist tallying up all the chrome and aftermarket do-dads like anyone cares. It's like custom paint. You pay a fortune for it and you love it but everyone else hates it. I am surprised a dealer even mentions aftermarket stuff. It can be as big a turn off as a selling point.
     
  13. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    I thought the whole point of H/D was that the chances of someone else having the exact same bike as you is really remote... & thats what some people pay for - the exclusivity - LOLOLOLOL
     
  14. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    Oh, & sorry to hear you lost your job - unless you didn't really want it .....
     
  15. Big_Jim59

    Big_Jim59 Member

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    Two weeks before they fired me I had cleaned out my desk, removed all my pictures and personal items, made copies of all the files I wanted to keep for reference and made ready to quit. The sales group never worked with me. They avoided me, ridiculed me and stonewalled me at every turn. I found that the sales manager was planning his own event and that was the last straw for me. It was pretty obvious I didn't belong after a particularly contentious meeting where I lamented that the 2019 model Harley-Davidsons consisted of the same 2018 models with different paint and a better radio! MAD Oh. . .boy where they pissed at me. "I just didn't get it."

    I got it all right but I was the only one in the room that did. When I worked for Yamaha and the demo truck rolled in it had different models on it and I mean really different. Harley's different models have bigger engines or an updated radio screen. The real innovations in 2019 came to the Harley-Davidson Tri Glide three wheeler and that product is dead as a concrete floor. Three wheel touring bikes are the last refuge of an aging rider. These riders are aging out and dying off leaving used, low mileage, three wheelers stacking up in everyone's inventory.

    No one wants to lose their job. I wanted to be really good at it and I really did try my best. There are some really difficult cultural problems to overcome from the Motor Company, the loyal customer base and the dealership. The hardest part is going from a life where everything in the near future was defined by my calendar to a life where I have been cut loose. It feels rather empty at the moment.
     
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  16. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    Their loss .....
     
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  17. Big_Jim59

    Big_Jim59 Member

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    I am in good company. Eric Buell got screwed working for Harley
     
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  18. REVTMOLO

    REVTMOLO New Member

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    You'll move on to something better. Sorry the MoCo failed you but if you were the only guy in a room full of people who could recognize a genuine problem and they chastised you rather than commending you for having the balls to speak up then they will end up victims of their own lack of insight.

    It pisses me off when people are pushed aside for having a little vision and thinking outside of the box.
     
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  19. A.M

    A.M Moderator Staff Member

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    Keep your head up. You tried your best and filled your calendar for a while. Plus gained interesting experiences and observations.

    I feel the entire market for motos as recreation is going by the wayside. Namely because of technology. First graders barely know what it's like to play outside. But they can tell me how to steal a car in GTA5...
    Now, live in an area where motos or scooters are a necessary means of transport and there is a different story. But it's dying quick in America...HD America.

    I'm just really happy to see you back!! Find me on the FB if you still use it. I took a hiatus, but found no alternative for socials over the summer, so I still use it some. I moderate FB pages more. I've been absent here too. Many happenings this year...but finding my way back home.
     
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  20. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    I fear they will go the way of Victory, Aprilia, MV Agusta, Earlier Ducati, etc. They will just get kicked around from capital company to capital company who will bleed them for all they are worth. Ducati managed to find a decent partner in VW, Aprilia found a decent partner in Piaggio, Victory was OK with Polaris until they crumbled into dust (writing on the wall?) and MV Agusta still struggles to this very day. I'm not sure there will be a lot of interest in the actual machines, just the branding. Sad Really, but it wasn't going to last forever the way they were going. I didn't include Motus, only because I never remotely considered them or their machines to be capable of any longevity.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
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