NEED HELP! DCT DYNO Question

Need Help! I took my DCT to get Dyno numbers today and after we put it on the Dyno, we could not get it out of first gear regardless of MODE (Drive, Sport or Manual). WTH?!?
We called Honda USA and the best they could do was tell us that it has to do with a speed sensor on the front wheel and that if the front wheel is not moving, the computer sees no need to shift out of 1st gear. AHHH
The person I talked to at Honda had no clue on how to get around this and thought it might be DCT specific (not an issue on the manual apparently?). The Honda rep told me his boss gets back on Thursday and might know how to get around this issue but he was certain that someone knew as they have run DCTs on the Dyno successfully. Anyone have a clue on this one? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

SON- OF- A- BIAAAA!!! Well I just got a call back from Randy at American Honda who informed me that the DCT has speed sensors in both the front and rear wheel which are tied to the transmission operations of the bike (unlike the non DCT version) and will not allow the bike to get out of 1st gear if dyno'd......there is no way to trick the system Grrrr. Do not disconnect the speed sensors because it will throw up an error message and it still won't senese both wheels moving so you will not get past first gear. The sensors are tapped into the shifting operation of the bike regardless of what mode (manual, sport, drive) you are in (as I painfully discovered) because they are all working off the same system as they are all intertwined. American Honda's R & D department could not get past it when they got their DCT so it looks like its a done deal. Any published DCT dyno results must have been taken from a non DCT model. He suggested I look at the dynos of the non DCT model to get a ballpark of where my bike was at currently. Randy was professional and great to work with, he was the unfortunate bearer of bad news. NO WAY TO DYNO A DCT, HOW CAN THIS BE??? This might be the first two wheel bike in history that cannot be dyno'd. I still love it but GD!

 

oh its gonna take someone way more tech savy than me (and thats not saying much). Apparently the R & D guys at American Honda tried everything but could not get around it. I will wait to see what you all come up with!

 

we had a guy in the shop yesterday with a brand new electronic 10-speed shifter

short answer was: unless uncle bill gates OKs it, you aint shifting

he was from out of town, and less than thrilled

 

Take the fuses out that control the speed sensors.

Another reason not to own that kind of crap.

HONDA better get some motorcycle people in that design dept. before the
transformer computer children ruin everything.

You have to be a pretty dumb engineer not to realize that owners may want to dyno the bike. HONDA wake up!!

 

You can make fun of me, but we all know that things should work properly and be RELIABLE -not like computers which are UNRELIABLE and hackable.

And any engineer that makes it so that you cannot DYNO your vehicle should be fired.
They need to THINK.

 

I grew up working on Honda motorcycles and was a dealer mechanic.


They used to make reliable motorcycles. That is how they got their reputation.
They were easy to work on too. A headlight did not cost $600 dollars!

Why do you think so many people are restoring older motorcycles now?
They had centerstands, They had electric start AND kick start. You could get to the tool kit without tools.
They could carry two people and the passenger did not have their rear end stuck way up in the air and look like a fool. You were not leaning on your arms and hands all the time. Racing motorcycles are ok but not everyone wants to race.
We need motorcycles to go to work on. We need motorcycles that we can ride with a passenger in comfort.

Honda is starting to change with some of the 2011 models.
They have more models than just sport bikes.

One more thing...When a new model came to the dealership, it was VERY EXCITING!!!
What went wrong?

 

Tink that's a great idea. I think it should work, unless the ecu expects a different name/number from each speed sensor. Well worth the try. If it works then you have a product to sell to the DCT Honda crowd. Unless I beat you to it!:wink:

Donald I know how you feel dude. But you have to change with the world, because it will change with you like it or not. Your right though somebody should have thought about that! The biggest problem with new engineers is the lack of practical experience in what they are designing. I hear that from some old engineers.

 

I miss the days when you could pull up to the tasty freeze with your steady girlfriend on the back, get a swirly soft serve ice cream cone, then go off to make out point and neck all night long.....

this side bar was brought to you by the "I like turtles foundation". Remember turtles are people too.

 

Turtles are only people after you tow them on a trailer

 

someone make the darn thing already, I will buy it quick and lets see if we can get past this hurdle Glad to see this place is full of tech savy people and some funny mother-efers!

 

If I get the dough I will buy a Shadow RS.

Too bad they do not make it as a 1100cc Shadow RS. Big mistake.

 

A few people have dynoed their DCTs by simply plugging the front wheel speed wire into the rear wheel speed sensor. I'm sure someone posted about it in VFRD but I can't find the thread.

I for one miss the good old days when motorcycles had a manual spark advance. These shitty new computerized bikes designed by transformer children with their automatic spark advance. I should be able to reach down and advance or retard the spark whenever I like because I'm such an awesome rider and mechanic. And what's with the automatic fuel enrichment? That's just another thing to fail. Real men use a manual choke.

 

I disagree. With the advent of electronic ignition and the elimination of points type ignition and spring controlled advance, timing was much more reliable. Even old mechanics like me liked the electronic igniton systems. Still do. But what we have now is a magneto (pulse generator), in conjunction with a electronic box to control the timing. Before it was a alternator, with reluctor on the camshaft. And camshaft sensor to control the coils. No Pulse generator (magneto). But both of those systems were better than mechanical points and spring advance on the camshaft. As far as the choke... The manual choke knob that controlled a butterfly that controlled the amount of AIR, WAS much simpler than the FUEL enrichment type choke that controls fuel. The manual choke that controlled AIR -if you forgot and left it on, would make it run lousy and remind you that the choke was still on. With the FUEL enrichment choke it just makes the carb more complicated, and if you forget and leave it on, the engine still runs but pollutes the atmosphere with a very rich mixture. Not as good.


Of course fuel injection made everything better but was many times more expensive. Especially that fuel /air sensor. On some cars that sensor is $500. or more. Just that one part.
An none of it will work right if the fuel pressure regulator gets off.

I think the biggest improvement of all was direct fuel injection directly into the combustion chamber making 65:1 fuel mixture ratios possible.
Before that it was still 14:1 or so. Much was lost in the intake manifold.