Discussion in 'General VFR Discussions' started by Allyance, May 31, 2018.
CHP rammed him for sure. But the system and investigation will exonerate the officer because it's a rigged game.
Didn't really look like he was stopping, and it looked like the cop tried to force him into the curb.
That's one of the dangers of running from the cops. You could end up on the ground, or in it.
what rigged system? Don't be an idiot, don't run from the cops, don't have to worry.
So who would you blame if the biker had hit and killed a pedestrian? He deserves that and more!
And if the biker, after being struck by the cop then hit and killed a pedestrian, whose fault would that be? Cops especially after a shooting are given a benefit of the doubt to a level that the regular Joe wouldn't get - so yes I consider it a rigged game. I have no doubt the same level of protection to the officer will be applied to the investigation of this incident. Running from the cops is not smart, but cops pulling a PITT maneuver on a bike in the city isn't either.
I see what you're saying, but if the guy won't stop after continued warnings to stop, do you just let him go? Kind of sets a bad precedent doesn't it?
I would really like to hope that the officer had more on the rider than just an infraction. Deliberately striking a motorcyclist with a car is an action that needs some quality explanation.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! This is actually a lose-lose situation for everyone. One, it makes motorcyclist look bad. Two, it’s going to cost the state money to investigate this. Three, if it turns out that the CHP officer is found to be in the wrong, then it’s going to cost even more for any cost settlement. All because one hooligan decided he wanted to run from the law.
As far as the scenario of if someone was killed, if you commit a crime and someone is killed in the perpetration of the crime, or in the pursuit of you fleeing the crime, you can be held responsible for that persons death. Same goes for an accomplice, even if they were not the one driving or pulling the trigger of a gun, they were part of the crime. This may not always apply but has been pursued in court before.
Good question, sometimes depending where you are it may be better to call off the pursuit in the interest of overall safety. That's going to be a judgment call, and there are those that might take advantage of it. It's certainly a thorny issue with no simple answers.
Justifiable use of force. Biker could have slowed or stopped as the cop began forcing him over to the curb. Biker was a fuggen idiot. Who is to say this biker was not fleeing the scene of some hideous crime? Maybe involving unspeakable things done to children. I sure don't by watching that video which may or may not have been edited by the people who took the video, who by the sounds of it, have a slanted opinion of authority.
BTW. It is PIT not PITT. I would suggest if someone was to make reference to PIT, they should know what it is. That was not a PIT...not even close.
They BOTH FUCKED UP IMO! One scraped and bruised the other having his face all over the internet as a bad cop! They both knew what the where doing and one aggravated the others authority and mainly his ego! He made a bad ego based call. The first one also guilty of ego mania thinking he could endanger people and do what ever the fuck he wanted. IMO they both need punishment. One will go to jail for 30days the other will be probably get a pay cut and a period of leave without pay plus a review in his record on the force showing bad judgement but that is all. If there was a death involved this would go further than it will.
Don't run from the police and this won't happen. Rider brought this upon himself.
Agree. Pragmatically, the rider probably thought, that if caught, he would be treated as he was treated. The reason police have such a horrible image is because they've earned it as illustrated it in this video. The cop knew the rider didn't commit a mass murder or some heinous crime. Why not just call it off and let a human live another day and end the danger sooner rather than later and not expose both himself and the city to unlimited liability? Answer: pride and inflated ego based on perceived power. It's epidemic in law enforcement.
The selection process for cops is inadequate at best. I've run from cops at least four times successfully but I knew well enough for me to know they had no chance of catching me and I was in a place that only I would be hurt if something went wrong. Call me an idiot but I absolutely hate cops in general due to the way too the many bad ones behave. Too many of them behave like animals that deserve no respect. When I've called them for help, they didn't do their jobs multiple times and I get sick and tired of hearing and dealing with what I consider some of the most disgusting, bullying, egotistical behavior I could find quickly if I had to. Call me and criticize me anyway you want but their collective record is what it is and I think, that in this video, the cop should be charged with attempted first degree murder. There is absolutely no excuse for trying to murder a motorcycle rider with a cop car. The only reason most of them would do the job, with shit for pay, is because they can't do anything else or their warped minds require a power and ego trip. I don't care what anybody thinks of this post so don't bother if any replies are directed at me. There, said it. Using a cop car as a weapon against a motorcycle rider is unforgivable. Saying the rider should have known better is a weak answer. There's nobody on this forum that hasn't broken laws.
If what the biker was running from was as you suggest, a minor thing then I would agree. But where is that determined in the video. Yes, if it were even a serious traffic infraction, I agree. Let it go. But if were something more serious and hideous, the cop has to do his best to apprehend. We just don't know what precipitated this.
Glad you hate cops. Makes me feel far more proud of my 25 years at it.
BTW. You are correct. There are very few people who have not broken traffic laws or more. I am one of them. I have received tickets to prove it.
Isn't the real problem with this cops action in that he has created a shitstorm for potentially a minor road offence. This sort of tactic should only be used as a real last resort and only when the circumstances warrant it. The outrage this cops actions cause has far reaching consequences.
FYI.. I don't disagree with what he did - it's just that sometimes they have to be smarter..
And this is why I was a member of sportbikes.net for only a minute or two. Randy, good effort brother but Anti-LE are pretty much gonna stay Anti-LE and HUA are pretty much gonna stay HUA... Much easier to ::CLICK:: and add to Ignore. I only had one on my list but it looks like I'm adding another 3 or 4 now...
I don't expect to change opinions and really don't care. It is amazing the haters when they haven't a guddam clue what day to day experiences are encountered by the law what has nothing to do with traffic matters.
I have administered emergency first aid to those hurt so many times I cannot remember. I have pulled a child from beneath the water on days off. Matter of fact, no one on that crowded beach even relied that kid was going down for the count. I have donated bone marrow to someone who to this day, I have never met. I do next of kin notifications and do my best to try to make them understand why their loved one is now dead. I have successfully recommended a 17 year old to receive Canada's Medal of Bravery for his efforts in trying to save a life. I am about to do that again for two women recently and I am not even a cop anymore.
In Canada, according to Statistics Canada, there are more deaths attributed to motor vehicle collisions than what can be attributed to any other criminal offense. So ya. Cops, especially traffic cops should be doing something more important like going after people who pull on a joint.
But the haters will hate and I can live with that. Time to unsubscribe to this dribble.
Don't have time to get into this right now but in brief, for those who might be looking at this with a relatively open mind
1. A video NEVER tells the whole story (e.g. what happened before the video started or before what was captured?)
2. A collision between the patrol vehicle and motorcycle/motorcyclist took place but, IMO, it wasn't "ramming" or a PIT, it looked more like, for the lack of a better term, "herding" or "guiding/pressuring"
3. In order to legitimately and accurately judge an LEOs actions, you need the Totality of the Circumstances, starting with the LEOs articulation of what he/she knew at the time, what he/she perceived/believed, and his/her reasoning for why he/she did what he/she did - I highly doubt that ANYONE on this website has enough information to form any valid conclusion (OTOH, there is plenty for ASSumption)
4. LE uses of force RARELY look "good" on video - just because something "looks bad" doesn't necessarily mean it Was "bad" (and at this point, I'm not sure this incident would even fall under a use of force, as opposed to an accident)
5. once someone starts evading (failure to pull over), it's no longer just an Infraction - it's at least a Misdemeanor and possibly a Felony (check the 2800 sections in CA vehicle code) and that's on top of whatever else happened before and during a pursuit
6. 99.9999% of the time (yes, making that number up) an incident like this would have never happened had the person involved simply complied with lawful directions or obeyed penal/vehicle code statutes
I've got a good buddy who is CHP and I texted him about this, waiting to hear back... (for those of you who don't know, different LE agencies have different policies and procedures and what's permitted by some may be prohibited by others, and vice versa)
Btw, FWIW, are there LEOs who make mistakes (sometimes with tragic consequences)? Yes. Are there people who should have never been hired who slipped through the cracks and are now LEOs? Sure. People always complain about the quality of LEOs - well, where do you think we get LEOs from? If we want better cops, we need to make better candidates (make the average member of society a better person). IMO, there are less "problem children" in LE than in most other fields, simply from the hiring/background processes. You can get kicked out of the process of being an LEO but still be a lawyer, a doctor, a politician, or even the POTUS.
Sir Robert Peel's nine principles (#7):
To at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence .
Last, I should probably make it clear that I'm not stating that what the CHP officer did in this incident was absolutely OK or Objectively Reasonable. He could have been in the wrong (excessive or unreasonable) too. I'm just saying that, right now, no one has enough info to conclusively state one way or another and things will be more clear after an investigation or review.
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