overVolt after R/R replaced

I have just replaced my r/r and found higher than normal voltage charging the battery.
My 1999 VFR failed after riding far away from home. I purchased the replacement, installed it and rode back home. I checked the voltage and found that the charge is significantly higher than normal voltage. My bike shows 16 volts DC at idle and 17.5 or more at higher rpm.
I have since made attempt to contact the manufacturer of the part. Ricks Motorsport. I guess I am not the only one with this part from what I understand. What is the experience with others using this brand?

I am trained in electronics with an AA in electronics technology and have electrical experience, I know exactly how these things work, but dont know the specifics to my bike and the possible effects in real life. Has anyone had this effect on their bike after upgrading the r/r? What is typical voltage for this upgrade with this brand?
Thanks

 

You stated that it was a long ride home. Did the battery show any evidence of over charging? If not, you may want to try another meter, just to confirm your findings. There have been previous posters that were going crazy chasing ghosts, due to un-calibrated meters. It would not be the first Ricks to fail, out of the box, but he stands by his stuff, so there should be no need to worry.

 

Hmm it sounds like the new RR may be faulty, or the battery or both.

Normally that RR should be delivering 13 - 14 volts+ at idle and between 14 and 15 volts above 2,000 rpm. It should never exceed 15.5 volts or things like headlight bulbs will blow. (Lights on/lights off should make no more than about 0.5V difference to those numbers.)

How old is the battery? A totally spent battery, especially one with an internal short fault, could be drawing so much current that the RR is just doing its level best to recharge a duff battery, as well as keeping the engine and other electrics fed.

To test battery: (original Yuasa type) - remove from bike and trickle charge overnight with a decent Optimate type digital charger until it is fully charged. The digital chargers won't over charge/cook the battery. So next morning ...

- End of charge volts should be 12.7-13.2V
- Connect a load to the battery (any old 21W indicator bulb should provide enough drain)
- Check voltage every 30mins or so and see how long it takes for the battery volts to drop to 12.3V
- Less than half hour = Totally dead battery - bin it!
- About one hour = Virtually dead battery - needing replacement now!
- More than one hour 30 = battery is still serviceable - but will need replacing soon
- More than two hours = Good battery.

Assuming the battery is considered good or serviceable - put it back on the trickle charger and in the mean time send the RR back!

I have also seen posts reporting issues with new Ricks RRs. If you really want peace of mind the only way to go is fitting one of these:-

Shindengen FH020AA Mosfet Regulator/Rectifier - take care there are similar looking items on eBay which look suspiciously cheap.

Fitting a Mosfet RR is to be honest Honda should have done from day one - as it has badly damaged the VFR's reputation for reliability!

Hope that helps





SkiMad

 

Thanks Skimad,
I have a new battery which is only three weeks old. I am sure the failure of the rr would have impacted the damage to the old battery. I replaced it last month after driving the bike, turning it off and not getting enough battery power to restart. Today the battery tests at 13.12 after sitting overnight, therefore, the battery is not an issue.

So, after retesting the battery measurements I find the voltages are still high at well over 16 volts and as high as 17.5 volts and up.
I have sent an email to Ricks and will contact the dealer that sold it to me.

As a new VFR owner I thought it was not going to happen to me. But, I agree this should have been a recall for sure.
Thanks for the reply.

 

13.12V for a rested battery seems a little high. Did you try another meter? Surely as an ET, you must have more than one meter kicking around, or at least, access to one.

 

I always thought that 12.4 volts was about right for a sitting battery, I have never seen one sit higher than that

 

If that thing is really making 17+ volts I would not ride it at all, 17 and over will make a battery start to boil almost immediately.

 

Is there any particular models that have this crazy overcharging issues. Does anybody make a rec/reg that can handle this voltage or is it just pot luck Enfield have charging issues as well and it is a crap shoot with rec/reg units but you can get those for $15 delivered so you don't mind if you fry a couple

 

Not sure what you mean by over-volts issue? A properly functioning stator(alternator) will be putting out way over 50volts AC at 5,000 rpm - that is not over volts that's normal. Using some electrical witchcraft, a properly functioning RR(regulator rectifier), will convert the AC volts to DC (the rectifier stage) and then drops the volts to within an acceptable range so it can be safely used on the bike(the regulator stage). Quite often there is excess electrical energy which is dumped as heat - sometimes lots of heat - hence more modern RRs have sizeable cooling fins, and even those can struggle (fail) in hot weather.

The electrical components fitted to most bikes are bought in by manufacturers from outside suppliers. Inevitably they will focus on price rather than quality, and basically similar components appear on bikes made by Honda, Suzuki... If you google for RR failure and a major bike type like fireblade or gsxr you will see they have more or less the same problems. A second critical factor is wiring gauge - which if you can " get away" with using thinner stuff until the bike is out of warranty, then the bean counters will argue is what any sensible manufacturer would choose. Downside is they are not the one stranded at the roadside cursing their penny pinching. I suspect manufacturers are not going to be unhappy if their dealerships make windfall profits handling a steady stream of electrical related breakdowns, as long as they happen after the warranty is expired and someone else is picking up the bill.

I have not yet spotted any reports of RR issues with 7th gen models but there have been plenty of issues with the electrics on previous VFR Gens. But its not just a VFR thing, similar electrical gremlins have been the bane of many mechanically sound motorbikes. For their praise at least Yamaha realised the reputation damage and started fitting their bikes with mosfet RRs which cost more but will probably outlast the bike.

In case you did not spot it here is a link to the more reliable and much cooler running Shindengen FH020AA Mosfet Regulator/Rectifier - (which Yamaha use), which can be retrofitted to most VFRs.




SkiMad

 

Yeah I contacted the dealer and will be sending the regulator rectifier back to them. I dont want to lose ride time but dont want to chance causing other costly damage to my toy.

 

I have contacted the dealer and will be sending the unit back to them. I have found the unit from rmstator also and will be considering this one: MOSFET REGULATOR RECTIFIER
Is there anyone familiar with using this one?

 

Each cell on a 12V battery technically holds 2.1 to 2.2v. So with 6 cells, a fully charged battery with no load should read a minimum of 12.6V, and a maximum of 13.2. 12.4 might be "acceptable" and not necessarily indicative of a bad battery, bu it is a little low.

To T/A Rocks: I've had a Ricks unit on my bike for almost 3 years with no issues. I've heard lots of people swear by them, and others who hate them and had bad luck. Its looking like you got a bum unit, and hopefully Rick's does the right thing. Assume you've checked everything else - stator output, connections, ground, etc. Did you solder all the new connections or use the spade clips?

Feel like I'm preaching to the choir based on your electronic knowledge, but maybe its just the "simple" thing.

 

I bought 2 Motorbatt batteries a couple of weeks ago and both sit at 12.4volts so buggered if I know

 

Well the battery clearly is not an issue for me so I will return to the original problem. This is the current status of my r/r issue.
I have removed and returned the part to the dealer. The regulator/rectifier tested good and is being returned to me once again. The problem here is that the part is a 10-312 from Ricksmotorsportselectrics and is made for "not my bike, but can work" according to Rick. The part is coming in today and I will repair it as follows.
Rick instructed me to connect the black wire on the r/r to my switched 12 source. This means that the voltage input to the regulator is needed to compare to the output. This is needed in order to work properly evidently.
So, I will be doing so and getting the news back online, here.
Thanks for the support and trying to narrow down my problem.

 

about the dealer

This is the "deal" I got for a dealer.
Since this dealer didnt have my VFR part in particular they sold another.
GRD Cycle in white plains, Md sold me a part for another Honda, a VTR and indicated that it will work on my bike since all r/r's are basically the same.
They may have been kinda right, but not entirely. The part did not work on my bike until another wire was connected to a source. They were quite unaware and never indicated that the wires were different and needed to be connected as such. But, they sold it under the pretense that it works. Then tell me that since I cut the wires it is not warranteed. Then want to sell me another for $140. This seems a bit outrageous to me.
I will not suggest anyone service the bike where they have only general knowledge but charge expert service fees, and the warranty expires when you get the part out of the store.

 

this all being said, now I need to ask for a link help.
I will be adding a vfrness I think to my bike.
where will i find a complete link or links to help with installation.
and what is the vfrness purpose?

I will also want to see about where is the best place to obtain my 12 switched power for my modified regulator.
I was looking at connecting to fuse block and under the start wires. Any other suggestions for getting 12v ignition switched power?

 

OK it sounds like we are getting closer to the solution but I would definitely not be running the bike whilst the RR is still putting out 17 volts+.

As for the extra wire feed, if the Ricks RR which you have purchased requires an additional "switched 12 volt input" to work correctly, then you need to find a circuit which comes on and stays on when the ignition is in the on position. If your bike has running lights then hook into the feed to the rear light, otherwise you will have to refer to your manual to find a circuit or fuse to tap into.

Assuming the RR is serviceable, then a solder and shrink wrap join, should allow you to reinstate whatever wire you cut off and run it to whatever switched 12 volt source you need tap into. Once that is installed I would cautiously start the bike whilst monitoring the volts with a multi-meter - I guess the volts might rise sharply for a few seconds but needs to drop to 14 - 15.5 very quickly. If the volts stay high for more than a few seconds then turn the bike off, throw the RR in the nearest bin, learn from the mistake and go buy a mosfet RR.

Good luck




SkiMad

 

You can pick up an ignition on power feed from the rear brake light wire

 

Hmm - Thanks for the input but are you sure?

I was intentionally cautious about my advice as I only have a 6th gen, and on that only the rear running light (not brake) feed goes live with the ignition. However I think this is probably a feature of models with mandatory daylight running, and I suspect those requirements may not apply to a 99 model VFR sold in the US market. Anyway hopefully someone that side of the pond can check that out.

Instinctively I would have thought the wire running to the rear brake light is only energised when the circuit is completed by closing the contacts at either brake lever. So whilst the upstream side of the brake circuit should indeed go live with the ignition circuit, the wire running to the brake light will only be hot when a brake is activated, so would not be suitable for use as an additional switched feed to the RR?





SkiMad