Right or Wrong, The Moral Dilemma of PCIII maps

I know that this is going get me a lot of grief. I can take it. I do a good bit of self analysis because the human mind is a terrible thing. I have read on this forum and on VFRD about people talking about maps available for PCIII. others have stated, myself included, that they have had custom maps done for their rides. and other people on the forum inevitably ask for a copy of the map for their bikes. Having just paid a tuner $350 for the custom map for my bike, on top of the nearly $1000.00 in mods to make it necessary. No one has offered to help anyone defer the cost of the map. I know that these forums are about sharing information and experience to the benefit of all of us here. but i still think there should be an offer to compensate your efriend for his assistance. I would not offer to sell my map, but if some one wanted a copy and offered to pay a small fee(say,$25.00) to help defray the cost, which we all know about i think that would be the correct thing to do. would you ask a friend to give you something of his and not expect to compensate him for his expense. i wonder if I am being selfish or am I justified in believing that to expect some one to give you something that cost him $350 for nothing is ludicrous. I may not even accept payment for the map but, i think the offer should be made. like I said I can take it. If you hate me, go ahead, hate me. I don't give a $%#&!! So let the slaughter begin. I am not asking for anything just curious about what you guys/gals think about this. Knowledge is free Custom Maps are not. :frusty:

 

I couldn't agree more with you, Danimal. I'm rather surprised nobody would offer to defray the costs in asking for it in the first place. Maybe I'm old fashioned that way, but to me, that's just common courtesy. Or I guess, un-common courtesy in this day and age.

 

Hi there D; I like the subject,I really never thought about it much. Anyway as far as custom maps go, I agree that lots of effort and money can be put into todays high tech scooters. And even more if you want that little edge such as you did with the addition of a custom map. In my opinion when guys give or trade custom maps,they are usually looking to get a base line. I dont think they are expecting to get a spot on map so that they can plug and play. Even if someone has the same year bike with the exact mods as you,chances are their bike wouldnt be an exact map match to yours. Now if we were racing for high stakes I would consider my map top secret. As for me,If I can
help a fellow VFR'r by giving him my map, I probably would. My payment would come from the guy calling me and saying how much better his bike ran!
eddie

 

Eddie, you make a good point and I think i feel that way as well. But Placerville's point is well taken too. a decent person would make an offer i think. I must be old fashioned, too.
testing Placerville's hypothesis how old are you? I am 49.

 

You make a good point Danimal..... The other side is you are sharing information that will help someone and there usually comes a time when you will have someone share information that helps you. Thats why these forums exist. We help out guys when they get hurt or whatever because they would help us. We don't even have to ask for help and its there. I agree with you to a point but for the most part I think that all takes care of itself in one way or another. Pretty old fashioned huh?

 

Think the map would work with the LV's, the PCIII and a stock air filter or K&N. I already have the exhaust, but looking to get the PCIII and air filter later.

Marco

PS, If I used your map, I would compensate you.

 

the offer is appreciated, but unneccessary. I have already paid for it anyway
let me know when you want the map and how it works for you. and i will send you a copy as soon i get it downloaded out of the PC . which I plan on doing that tomorrow(10/11) with my buddy's laptop

 

You could have bought a used TFI box off ebay for a $1 like I did and not had to kick yourself for spending such large sums of money. I sorry this advice doesn't help you much or your ethical issues but they do work on the typical fueling issues due to the lean EPA regs.

 

Eddie said it pretty good, I have given my map out to at least 5 different VFRworld riders this year, the only thing I truly expect is for them to let me know is how the map worked and a common courtesy thank you. I believe in Karma and the knowledge I've gained on this site is worth the $275.00 dollars I paid for the map...

 

RW
Never said I was Kicking myself over the money I spent. it was the issue of us not offering to help a brother out who we obviously knew spent His money for something and how some of us want to get the same thing but not make the offer of compensation. In a separate post I stated that due to the improvement in performance that it was worth every penny. I still say that this is the case. I really don't buy things off Ebay. if I want to enhance my motorcycle i prefer BNIB stuff for my girl. She likes it. It goes back to that old saying "pig in a poke" I like to touch and feel the stuff IMHO.
what is a TFI? who makes it, how does it work. looks like I need to do some research. it seems to me that the majority of FI enhancers use the PC, though.

Love your avatar, It is sweet. Cat with an AK!!! LOL

 

Dan:

If his offer is unneccessary, than why start the thread?

If you feel like someone owes you compensation, you should just make your expectation explicit. Otherwise, anyone you have given a map to may now feel guilty for not offering to compensate you. :frown:

If your complaint is people are rude by not saying thank you, I view a manners discussion differently than a business ($$) discussion.

IMHO, since you paid for it already, it is up to you to offer it freely or to offer it with an explicit request for compensation, or a "free will" offering if the reciever liked it. If people don't say thanks, don't share with them anymore. This is kindergarden-playground rules, isn't it? :redface:

It costs me time (& time is money) to take pictures of stuff - bike parts, instructions, or even posts, but I have no expectation of compensation other than the occational banter I enjoy on the forum. :blah:

banter exampleOtherwise goingfaster would have been getting heated grips for everyone except Mello Dude :wink.

 

Noz,

If you read the start of this thread. It was an exercise in self-analysis clearly stated...
I didn't offer anything to anyone. Ergo, no one owes me any compensation for anything. They ask for the map, not necessarily from me . I give stuff away all the time, bike parts, bikes, you name it. I think I have a generous nature.

Guilt is an emotion. Our emotions belong to each of us. If you feel guilt it is because you want to (consciously or subconsciously. (only Freud and your mom know why,
two years of psychiatry in Med school & this is what I learned)
I didn't say people are rude. I see it as change in acceptable manners and was curious of what my friends and brothers on this forum thought. Translate: I consider your opinions worth knowing. And trying to keep up with the times.

What do you do? Why do you charge yourself to take pictures? Time is not money! you can earn money. where do you earn time? we all get the same 24hrs in a day and however many days we get, we get, no rebates, no extensions. no chance to amass huge quantities of it.

It was interesting enough to you to get you to reply. Ha I got some of your time. Would you like to have it back? I'll trade it for some of your money. LLOL :biggrin:

are we bantering yet? all in good fun
Peace,

Well, the weather here is gorgeous and I am gonna take the girl for a joy ride. She loves that and so do I.

 

True friend will offer to compansate, & a true friend I wouldn't charge :biggrin:

On site friend I never meet personally, The offer of my map would be automatic in the sentance that "I got a great map & I'll let you have a copy for $25.00".

Yes you paid for it, you should be able to get something back to help off-set the costs, why not, $25.00 is cheaper than the cost of oil (good oil !) for there bike, how can you not justify that.:tongue:


but if I got to the point of recieving monies for this it brought my costs close to paying off the origanal cost, I'd stop charging for it.


But thats just me.:smile:

 

When it comes to custom maps, I think a lot of people don't realize how much these maps cost, Before I got educated on the PClll, I had no idea the custom map cost more than the PClll, a perfect example being this new VFRworld member who joined this site looking for help and was just looking for a map to make his bike run to it's full potential, check out his thread...


http://vfrworld.com/forums/sixth-generation-2002-2007/10950-need-map-pciii.html

 

It's a matter of courtesy. If I asked a guy for a favor (a custom map, for instance), I would offer to give him something in return. Might be money or might be something else.

 

RW makes a great point. I bet a lot people have no idea how much it costs for a custom map. Most, have probably looked on the PC website and see all kinds of free maps and assume a custom one can't be much. I know I was sure surprised when I found out.

 

Dan:

If I asked you for something and you gave it to me, I'd say thanks

If I asked you for something and you gave it to me with an explicit request of some compensation (such as money) I'd weigh the cost / benefit and decide, then say thanks.

If you offered to provide me with something that I perceived cost you nothing additional to provide me, I'd consider it a gift and say thank you. (does this mean we disagree on acceptable behavior?)

I guess I read your note as you being sour that you didn't get something that you never asked for, ie...money for a map that was already paid in full by you. I don't think you should be sore if you never told the person what you expected. It's hard to meet expectations if you don't know what they are.

I may have made a poor choice in analogies with "time is money", since, if true, this vfrworld thing is a money pit for me :wink:

Thank you for your insightful post and interesting discuss :smile:

 

I like derstuka's point...concurrent to DANIMAL's (and most). Unfortunately, 'good manners' are not instilled in everybody. And, as previously stated, some people are just plain cheap! I think the point has been made.

I just put a PCIII in my '03 last night. I have Micron's and K & N, no o2 eliminator or pair block. I used a map off of the website and I have to say ~ I guess my expectations for noticeable change were too high. My question is... if I spend the money for the o2 block, pair removal, and custom mapping ~ Is there a noticeable change? For those of you who have paid the extra $$$ for custom mapping, are you happy you did? A little or alot? Would you do it over if you had the choice? Thanks in advance for any feedback, johnnie5.

 

I've owned ski and wakeboard boats for years and the same thing comes up regarding "chipping in".
The reality is it cost 50k for the boat plus insurance, storage, etc. So the 20 bucks people pitch in really dosen't even make a dent in the overall cost of the boat, but it's the offer that counts. If someone dosen't offer to help pay for gas they don't get invited again and it really iritates me.