skip valve clearance inspetion???

Discussion in 'General VFR Discussions' started by powerslave, Jan 16, 2008.

  1. powerslave

    powerslave New Member

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    i visited my local honda dealer today to arrange for my wiring harness recall work,and thought i might get them to check my valve clearance since they'd have the fairings off,and i'm slightly overdue for this maintenance.i was blown away with what the mechanic told me.he said that the five or six vfrs he checked all met specs without any shims necessary. he then advised me to skip this inspection and save some money since my bike is running perfectly.he said that if my valves were out of spec enough to need shimming,i would notice the engine running poorly,and then come in for the valve clearance check.:eek: i would appriciate any thoughts you guys have on this matter.should i find another shop to deal with,or does anybody think my mechanic is correct?:decision:
     
  2. PARedVFRRider

    PARedVFRRider New Member

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    Well haven't crossed this line on my VFR yet. I only have 4600 miles on it, but I did cross it on my Kawasaki Quad with it's 700 V Twin. I had the quad in for service about 2 months ago (an oil change and general tune up) and I asked them to check the valves as well. what the mechanic told me is exactly what your mechanic told you. He said to me it sounds like it is runnign fine so wouldn't tear it apart for the valves just yet. He said I would notice it running rough and simply not running well when the valve work is due. So I left it and didn't do it that time.

    I'll be interested to see what the VFR crew kicks back with here. What happens if you don't do it and it starts running a little rough and you need to ride it long enough to get it to the dealer...can you damage the engine riding say a 100 miles on valves that are out of spec?
     
  3. Puma Cat

    Puma Cat New Member

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    What the mechanics have related to you here has been exactly my experience as well.

    Here's some case histories:

    I had an '89 CBR600 from '89 to '94. Put 35,000 miles on it. I paid all the additional money at the 8 and 16 and 24,000 mile service intervals and none of the valves was ever off. I should point out that this CBR has screw-type adjusters, which historically were more prone to go out of adjustment than shim-under-bucket adjustment. I did my own inspection at 32,000 miles, and 15 of the 16 valves were exactly on, and only no. 16 of 16 valves was off–0.001 inches.

    In '94, I bought an '94 F2. At 16K miles, I had the valves checked at, and none of them were out of adjustment. I sold the bike right around 32,000 miles, and as a service to the buyer, I had a full service done on the bike. I was debating whether to spend the extra money (over $200) to have the valve inspection done. I consulted the dealership owner at Berkeley Honda, and he strongly recommended that I not spend the money because he felt that there would be no valves out of adjustment and it would be a waste of money. He cited an R1 owner who had 150,000 miles on his R1 and none of the valves ever needed adjustment in that time. So, his recommendation was not to pay for it...it was a waste of money. Out of good conscience I went ahead and had it done anyway...the service cost me $650 back in 2001. Guess what....after 32,000 miles, virtually none of the valves were out of adjustment. He was right after all.

    Fast forward to my '01 CBR600F4i. The bike presently has 35,000 miles on it, and I have had major services performed right on schedule at 16,000 and 32,000 miles. Remembering my past experiences, I decided to pay for everything but the valve clearance inspection at both intervals. The bike has done a number of trackdays and continues to run flawlessly.

    Bought the VFR in mid-November with almost exactly 15,000 miles on it...put about 300 miles on it and then had to leave for Singapore for work for two weeks. Left the bike at the dealer to have it's 16K interval service done, and once again, had everything done but the valve inspection. Got the bike back, and it runs beautifully. My guess is that virtually none of the valves are out of adjustment as the bike runs GREAT. Smooth, quiet and powerful. I may have the valve clearances checked at 32K....but my guess is I won't need to as the bike will still be running great.

    So, in summary, my experiences have exactly mirrored the recommendations of the mechanics in the previous threads.
     
  4. eddievalleytrailer

    eddievalleytrailer Member

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    I checked the valves on my ACE at 12,000 miles. All were in spec. A compression test would tell you if you have a valve which is way too tight.
     
  5. powerslave

    powerslave New Member

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    Thanks for the input,fellas.like I mentioned, my bike is running fine:smooth and powerfull.This is an expense I was prepared to absorb,but if I don't have to,great! I guess I have just read so many threads about how terrible a gen 6 is because of this expensive and complicated procedure,I thought it was just a necessary evil.
    Thanks for your insight,I feel a lot better about my mechanic now.
    Anyboby else want to share your valve adjustment philosophy? I'm all ears...Thanx
     
  6. keeena

    keeena New Member

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    I like to err on the side of caution. Plus I like learning my bike and wrenching, so I do it myself. I don't think its ridiculously hard to do & have done screw-type and shim/bucket type. I haven't needed to do my VFR yet.

    I would think that change in sound/performance/whatever may be so subtle over a long period of time that you may not notice it. The couple bikes that I have had out of wack didn't sound funny to me.
     
  7. Bubba Zanetti

    Bubba Zanetti Member

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    Powerslave:

    This is a tough one for sure.

    I just had a fair amount of maintenance done to the 97. I has 17 thousand miles on it and since I was having other work done so the bike was going to be most of the way apart.

    I discussed it with the mechanic I go to and John said if it running great probably no worries, but if you want to be on the cautious side, I'll check them. So I had him check them and he told me all valves were in spec!

    I am like keeena, I'd rather do it now than be srewing with it during riding season.

    If nothings wrong, then just another testament to Honda's reliabilty.

    When I had the 93 I never had it checked and I sold it with 26-27 thousand miles on that bike, I did tell the new owner that he may want to have it checked since I never did but I can tell you the 93 ran flawlessly the 5 years I had it.

    I think Vman38 is the only VFR owner I heard of with the valve clearances off when he got his 93. Correct me if I am wrong Vman!

    BZ
     
  8. jasonsmith

    jasonsmith Member

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    Would not complying with the maintenance schedule have a negative impact on warranty? Obviously it would only apply if the engine blew up or something but would be a nice to know.

    Some of us here have long warranty periods, would suck to have them void. Especially within the first year or two.
     
  9. two4one

    two4one New Member

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    Your dealership would be stuck with the burden of proof on this one. They would have to prove without a doubt that due to a valve being out of spec your engine blew or caused other major internal damage. It's just like aftermarket car exhausts. You see people worrying all the time if an aftermarket exhaust will void their warranty, no it won't. No exhaust is going to cause, say, a transmission to slip as a direct result. The driver putting his foot through the floorboard will cause the tranny to slip eventually, not the exhaust.

    Just ride the thing. It'll be fine.
     
  10. Taz

    Taz New Member

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    My VF500 when sold @ 150,000 had the oil changed every 2000 miles or after a track weekend. that being said I ck'd the valves @ spec interval & never was out of adjustment.
    The guy that owns it today 10 years later I saw when I was in LA last & it still purrs like a kitten (& I beat that thing hard when I had it):biggrin: .

    That being said, the only prob with valves on any Honda I owned (& thats a lot of them) was my '04 VFR 6th gen:pout: .

    The cams & valves had problems & damage twice & the warrenty work on the 3 times it went in was $4300 bucks:eek: , & I haven't been a fan of the V-Tec, & 6th gen since owning that bike.

    All I could think of is that it must of been built on a Monday :frown:
     
  11. RVFR

    RVFR Member

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    I'll just chime in too, also agree with all those above me. But there is something about knowing for sure. I bought my VFR second hand, I'm the second owner so when it came time for the 32k service I did have the vales check, here's the deal though, I wanted perfect, not just in spec, LOL guess what, all but one were and that one number 4 exhaust I believe, it wasn't that far off the mark to justifie a shim, so there ya have it, they are solid as they can be. but for me, knowing is everything, yes I have trust issues. But I know for sure now, so all is good.
     
  12. Puma Cat

    Puma Cat New Member

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    My understanding, RVFR, is that valve clearances using shim-under-bucket almost never go out of adjustment.
     
  13. RVFR

    RVFR Member

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    Well yes things have come a long way since, but not so far back that I can't forget that there was once a time they did get out of wack. Point in case was my 73 z1 903 Kawasaki, so much that I did a quick schooling on how it was done and bought the Kawasaki only tool for $56 bucks, Ouch, do you know what $56 could buy back in 73? anyway was easy enough to do, just for some reason those little stink en vales wouldn't stay set. good thing it was an 8 valve head.
     
  14. chomper

    chomper New Member

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    jason what kinda warranty did you get i thought most warranties up here were for 12 months. it would be wishfull thinking for me anyways to put over 16k miles in first year before scheduled valve adjustment
     
  15. PorscheBob

    PorscheBob New Member

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    Years ago when I was a Honda sales mgr. I asked several of our mechanics
    how often they had to adjust valves on new motorcycles that came in for
    their 600 mile service.

    They said that only about 3% of the bikes needed any valve adjustment.

    This was on all Hondas, not just VFR models.

    When I purchase a new bike and get to 600 miles I change my own oil and filter,
    and also add a magnetic drain plug.

    The savings on not having the valves inspected can save about $150 - $200.
     
  16. two4one

    two4one New Member

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    Was there ever any determination on the exact cause of your problems? I'm pretty hard on mine so if there is anything in particular to look out for I'd appreciate it.
     
  17. mello dude

    mello dude Administrator

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    I dragged my feet on checking clearances of my old 4th gen and finally did it at 22,000 miles. All the valves were in spec - generally in the middle + .001. So while it was a good exercise, I could have got away without it. I now have a 5th gen with about 12K miles and I probly wait to about 25K to break down and check it. Preferably over the winter. I'm kinda dangerous when I start pulling stuff apart.....:eek:

    MD
     
  18. Lgn001

    Lgn001 Member

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    Taz, I would like to know too, as I also have a 6th gen. After I dug through the shop manual and found out that a VTEC motor has to have the cams removed and installed twice just to check clearances, I've been wondering how robust the valvetrain is, particularly on the "high speed" valves, lifters and pins. What I am really saying here is "maybe I can get away with just checking the non-VTEC clearances"...

    My '83 CB1100F tends to wander around a bit with regard to clearances, both intake and exhaust. Maybe the higher operating temps and older metals in the air cooled motors are a contributing factor. On the other hand, the '00 SV650 has one exhaust valve that is .0002" too tight, all the rest in spec, both times that I have checked them.

    Things have come a long way, but Murphy always seems to be around with a smile on his face...
     
  19. Longerfellow

    Longerfellow New Member

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    He's probably right, but being a tech he should have given you the option with an estimate and gone ahead and done it. Peace of mind means a lot to a lot of customers. If he was short on time, schedule you in somewhere.
     
  20. keeena

    keeena New Member

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    I could see that shims might reduce the likelyhood vs. screw adjuster type (screw could move around over time?). But shim definitely can go out of spec. My TL had 5 shims (out of 8 total...v-twin) that needed replacing at 21k miles. Only 2 were real tight...the rest were on the tight side barely on spec and I changed them just to be on the safe side.
     
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