VF750F Water contamination with engine oil...

Discussion in '1st & 2nd Generation 1983-1989' started by Nony Pestejo, Dec 5, 2011.

  1. Nony Pestejo

    Nony Pestejo New Member

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    Yesterday, I brought my bike to a mechanic because of acceleration problem there where I found that the oil was contaminated with water through the water pump oil seal leak. The water pump oil seal was replaced and had change oil, new oil filter and a coolant. As soon as I arrived home after a ride of about 50km from the mechanic, I checked the radiator water and it was visible at about the level of the neck of the radiator cup. I also checked the oil because of the white smoke coming out of the pipes and to my dismay, the new oil looks the same milky oil like the oil i changed an hour ago.

    I called-up my mechanic and told me that there is no possibility of a blown head gasket because there was no substantial water reduction in the radiator. He suggested to flash the engine with engine oil flash or gasoline to remove the remaining water or contaminated oil in the oil pan that might caused the milky oil.

    Before I will change the oil and oil filter or before I will have it overhauled, may I please seek your help on what to do and what are the possible causes of the milky oil? Do you think my mechanic’s assumption and suggestions are correct? No possibility of blown head gasket and washing the engine with gasoline is OK?

    Please help me...

    Thank you,
     
  2. GreyVF750F

    GreyVF750F Member

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    NO NO gasoline! If it's left over water then just drain the oil and change filer again. This should get the majority of the milky stuff out. The white smoke may be from gunk laying in your exhaust and will need 10-20 miles of riding to burn out. The mufflers need to get hot and stay that way for awhile.

    After you do this check the oil again to be sure. Just keep an eye on it for the first few rides. Any water left,has to be minimal, will burn off. If it's still real milky after that then yes you have another problem. Then do a compression test on all cylinders with a warm engine.

    If you had a bad head gasket that allows that much water in the engine the radiator should be puking water out from the combustion pressure and the motor would be running real hot.
     
  3. TOE CUTTER

    TOE CUTTER Mullet Man

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    If your sure the cause of the bad mixture is cured then I would suggest flushing the engine with several oil changes and not gasoline. It will take aboot four back to back oil changes to get it back in line.
     
  4. Dukiedook

    Dukiedook New Member

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    Short trips in cold weather without burning off the condensation buildup in the oil will cause this condition also.
    Be on the lookout for that and take the bike on a longer than 30 minute ride at least once a week.
     
  5. creaky

    creaky New Member

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    If there is no coolant loss or overheating, that would indicate that the leakage problem is solved. As said, 3-4 oil and fliter changes should get rid of the coolant remaining in the engine.
     
  6. TOE CUTTER

    TOE CUTTER Mullet Man

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    The gasoline is a suicidal move. Please do not do that.
     
  7. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Gasoline put into the engine?? Your village mechanic may not be as skilled as some and lack good tools, but that's no excuse for lacking good common sense ( as our old prime minister used to say), not good sense to pour gasoline into your motorcycle engine since it's not a USDOT-approved lubricant, not SAE-compliant and could cause damage to parts that need it IMO. Oil change removes most dirty engine junk so what's the use of gas ? Gas is great for cleaning PARTS of engines with a brush and lots of rags but not for use inside.

    You might have some reverse-contamination from the oily radiator overflow bottle if it wasn't cleaned. Best way to clean a dirty overflow bottle is fill it wiff a few small sharp rocks, some water and drops of dish detergent, then SHAKE enthusiastically until the sun goes down.

    As for the waterpump seal, there are at least two:

    One is a seal between engine oil and the area around the waterpump body and has nothing to do with getting any quantity of water into the oil. The other seal, on the inside waterpump drive shaft, could cause water leakage into the engine, and old age and high miles can cause a seal failure any time.....but fixing that requires replacement with a new pump--a NEW FROM HONDA pump, priced here in USA at about $95-$140-- is not something cobbled up by any third-world blacksmith with bandy knees, a dozen skinny kids, drinking local palmtree wine hootch under a nipa thatch shade in a spot on a small island standing around working on your bike in the heat. New pump could take weeks to arrive unless they recently built a 4-lane superhighway non-stop to the Manila importer, or depending on the monsoons might not arrive at all, so your poor tired feet are doing more walking, and that wears out shoes where you were wearing out tires before and enjoying it more, and now a poor man just cannot win. Cannot win.



    An outer waterpump O-ring failure (part is worth about $1US, just a large rubberband, really) would cause oil to very slowly leak out at the hole around the waterpump shaft where it fits into the side, but it wound not allow water ingress to the oil unless the bike was swamped in a monsoon or you rode across a stream of deep water.



    Sorry, but you're not ready yet to discount the possibility of a bad head gasket or cracks in a head. Did you ride the bike in a very overheated condition or let the radiator get too low on coolant ??

    Just for example. In a hot place an old radiator cap can gradually stop holding the pressure it's designed for, so gradually you may start to loose a quantity of water, and the temperature of the engine would increase and if you did not notice and kept riding in hot weather and you got into stop and go traffic on a hot day and your cooling fan did not start up and you didn't shut it off too cool and replace the missing coolant........then, in a case like that or something like it, headgasket damage could result from the incident, explaining how your oil got infected with coolant. If for any reason (availability, cost, because you think you don't need it??) you are running only normal tap water (one shudders to imagine just what that might mean in a developing country! Nevertheless....) then that would lead to a waterpumphaft seal failure since that part needs the lubricant contained in anti-freeze (must be a joke there, huh ?)/ coolant mixture. One thing leads to another..........and things can get complicated.

    Old bikes need lots of attention if they haven't always been maintained well or have been worked on by clueless rural clowns with wornout tools and battery acid holes in their sorry, sagging t-shirts.


    Hope you can save it, Nony, but yours is probably the oldest bike still running on that island !
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2011
  8. Nony Pestejo

    Nony Pestejo New Member

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    Sirs,

    Thank you so much for your advices. I will do all your advices and will try to have a longer ride soon as I changed oil, then change oil again after the ride. I'm sorry I just read your responses today and just this morming before I go to my office, i put a gasoline in the oil pan for the purpose of removing the visible milky color inside the engine. Still it remained there after a few times moving the bike sidewards, forward and backward without starting the engine, then drained it. Since I am disturbed with the white color inside the engine through the oil inlet. I removed the engine side cover, there showed a lot of white oil on the side of the cover like yogart that can't be cleaned by shaking with gasoline. I cleaned it and put it back then later this afternoon after office work, I will remove the oil pan to ensure it is cleaned also. I'm sure lot of sediments there too.

    Sir Squirelman, the oil seal I was referring is the seal around the shaft that when the pump assembly was removed, it just fell down without removing it. Surely it was the culprit. I hope it was not a crack head or blown head gasket because I drove 50km from the Mechanic to home without reduction of coolant and didn't feel overheating, maybe because that time it was showering.

    Again, thank you so much for your advices. I will keep you updated.

    Regards and advance merry christmas...
     
  9. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Remove your oil pan?? If you can do that.....why do you need any mechanic? You ARE the mechanic, and trusting another could be risky if he is not fully competant or won't stand behind his work.

    Many--most--of us enjoy working on our bikes, and there are far, far fewer good professional mechanics you might find than mechanics in general, so better do it yourself since you can learn and save and have control. Guys who do their own bike work would rather hand their girlfriend over to a gangly hord of college Young Republican Huns than hand their bike to a dealer's mechanic. Anyway, i would, i guess, if i had a girlfriend.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2011
  10. Nony Pestejo

    Nony Pestejo New Member

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    HAHAHA I agree with you sir! my bike is just like my son that i can't sleep well until it is fixed. That is why i insited to clean the oil pan without telling my mechanic after seeing the steaky milky oil inside the side cover. I am not a mechanic, I'm an accountant by profession. i just learned doing the easy things when i watched my mechanic overhauled by bike like it can't be assembled anymore and of course by by reading the bike's manual. I'm just hesitant to do it because i might destroy the gasket, but I need to check it than feel sorry later for not doing it if it will cause more hazard to the bike later by not cleaning it.

    i'm just wondering why you do not have a gf. I appreciate you sir for your being a straight man. Me? I sometimes bend just to help satisfy her need. Joke.

    Going back to my bike, I strongly believe that my bike will be fine soon maybe after 3-4 change oil as advised. Hopefully, the white smoke is not a severe effect of the water-oil contamination.

    Thanks a lot.
     
  11. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Sorry, panyero, but white smoke from the exhaust is a classic sign of a blown headgasket.......

    And before replacing the gasket, the cylinder head needs to be checked for warpage or cracks, often a result of overheating.
     
  12. Dukiedook

    Dukiedook New Member

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    +1, look for coolant leaks at the headgasket or the heads.
     
  13. Nony Pestejo

    Nony Pestejo New Member

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    Thank you sir! I will have it checked ASAP. Thanks a lot.
     
  14. Nony Pestejo

    Nony Pestejo New Member

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    Update of this thread:
    1. There was no head damage.
    2. The cylinder head gasket is ok.
    3. The remaining milky oil in the engine has been cleaned after 3 change oil in a period of 1 week.
    4. No more noticeable white smoke coming out of the pipes.
    5. i replaced the damaged pulser and it runs good again.

    Thank you so much for your help. Merry christmas!
     
  15. GreyVF750F

    GreyVF750F Member

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    Nice to hear the out come was a good one. Keep the rubber side down.
     
  16. TOE CUTTER

    TOE CUTTER Mullet Man

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    A happy ending with a gen 1 is rare and good to hear.
     
  17. Pliskin

    Pliskin New Member

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    Yay! I love happy endings.
     
  18. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    .....glad it's OK and ride in peace !
     
  19. Nony Pestejo

    Nony Pestejo New Member

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    Thanks a lot!
    Sir Grey750F. Keep the rubber side down...? (is it an idiomatic for leaning?) nope it is too expensive to repair. I was down twice already and it almost cost my life. running at a speed of 130 kph when suddenly a dog crossed my path. The only thing I remember was when i stood up after an about 90 meters slide with my bike. Its good I suffered no single scratch. Bike damage was broken clutch cylinder, clutch lever, detached radiator, detached and delapilated pipe, scraped engine side cover. Good was no scratch on the tank because of the end of the handle bar that served as slider. (sorry not a new thread, just a sort of info). Thanks.
     
  20. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Anyone worried about what the water/oil mix did to his bearings ?? Maybe it's only me...........?

    Nony, good work on keeping that old carabao going!!! :bs:
     
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